Chinese tones-could it get harder than this?

[Guest mirela_violeta]

I often wonder what is it that makes Chinese so difficult and I always come up with the same answer: THE TONES!!! I even find them harder than the writing, at least it took me less time to get used to the writing than with the tones. I must admit that I first payed more attention to the characters and it was probably because of that and because of the lack of opportunities to speak chinese that I got to a point where I could write more than 1500 characters and I could hardly speak right. Even though I've always learned each word with the tones I found it difficult to pronounce them. This year though I made a fabulous improvement from not being able to speak at all to being able to carry on any type of conversation. I know I speak my own version of chinese but if they understand me maybe I get most of the tones right. Before I was speaking without tones and I noticed that even though you say them right when you read, which is difficult enough, it'd different when you are carrying on a conversation. It's much harder to say the tones right when you speak. Anyone else had the same problems? Lately I've been having difficulties with my second tone, I keep mixing it with the third tone. Most people can't get the third tone right but I seem to turn the second one into a third and sometimes I turn the last words into the first tone. That is also a problem. If I read faster I invent first tones and it all starts sounding like a song or something...though I've improved a lot right now. What kind of problems have you had with the tones? I once said I killed a man, my chinese teacher was quite amused about that..so was I for that matter. Though I sometimes wonder if the chinese understand us if we speak without tones, or mix up the tones. I think of saying somethig and something else comes out. And it may be another word that just so happens is insulting or even fits into tha context or doesn't fit at all....it's all chinese...

[channamasala]

WHat did you say that came out to the effect that you killed a man? Wo shala yi ge (wei) lanhai?

The tones killed me at first too, but I've gotten used to them. My problem now is that I overstate them - a lot. I sound almost comedic - the tones are dead on but I sound like a singing fool...but at least I'm getting them right.

I just remember that Cantonese tones are far more difficult.

My big problem now is good grammar...

[Guest lebefroh]

I find tones a lot harder than writing as well! Learning characters is just memorizing but the tones... Our teachers here (in Germany) aren't to strict on them which I discovered when a teacher in China told me that I never got my fourth tone right (I think I have improved a bit since then...) But to me understanding what other people say is still a lot harder than getting my point across myself, regardless of the tones.

[JoH]

My tones are absolutely awful! Basically I think I just didn't pay enough attention to the tones when I started learning. Lately I have started to get a lot better though, just through concentrating on it a lot more. I've gone back over loads of words I already 'knew' to relearn the tones and I try to pay much more attention to the tones when I'm speaking.

I definitely have that third tone problem! I always seem to turn it into a second tone, its really annoying. The thing is you can get away with bad tones for a surprising amount of time (I've found!) if your chinese is otherwise not bad. Getting the sentence structure right helps people to understand you. But I'm sure its better to start earlier rather than add the tones on afterwards like I did.

[wix]

It took me at least three years to really wrap my head around the ideas of tones. That's not to say I was speaking toneless Chinese for three years, but that I really had to think about the tones when pronouncing every word. Now my main problem is that I don't know the tones with 100% accuracy, but it only rarely causes a misunderstanding.

[Guest tgilbert]

When you say you turn third tones into second tones, you are aware that the Chinese use a semi-third tone that sounds very similar to the second tone? It confuses the heck out of me in listening exercises.

[JoH]

When you say you turn third tones into second tones, you are aware that the Chinese use a semi-third tone that sounds very similar to the second tone? It confuses the heck out of me in listening exercises.

Yes, very similar but not exactly the same ... you still need a little dip at the start don't you and that's the bit I never get right.

I'm hoping one day it will all sort itself out.

[skylee]

I am a native speaker of Cantonese and have been learning (and still learning) Putonghua for years. But I still mix up the first and fourth tones. I can differentiate them when I listen to the others but cannot manage to remember them. Don't think I can ever really sort out this. No problem with the second and third tones though.

[Quest]

skylee, remember the cantonese word "si" for silk (first tone), and the cantonese way of saying the english word "sea" (fourth tone).

[Guest Andrew]

I can only thank god I had a ridiculously strict tutor from Beijing, who would not accept ANY incorrect tones when I started learning. I'm sure if he had a steel ruler he would have rapped my knuckles with it 50 times a lesson. I found it frustrating at the time, but now I positively glow when native speakers tell me I have an excellent standard pronunciation.

Not that there's anything wrong with a Southern style speakers, but I think it would be beneficial for FIRST tutors and teachers to be standard speakers. In Australia there are a lot of Malaysian, Hong Kong and Singaporean teachers who of course speak their own style of Mandarin. If you've learnt the standard speech first you can appreciate the rest of the wonderful variety of Chinese later without getting too confused.

[skylee]

Andrew you were lucky. My Putonghua teachers were all from Beijing too. My last teacher was very satisfied with my Putonghua except of course my frequent mistakes about the first and fourth tones. I burnt my midnight oil to memorize the tones before the exam and she gave me an "A". Since then I have managed to revert back to the old confusion.

[zh-laoshi]

The tones in Chinese are not really all that difficult. I've taught Chinese for over 15 years and found a way to teach them.

In the linguistic world, "English is not a tonal language". Well, sad to say, it is. The tones are spoken either in one word communication - "What?", "uuuuuuuhhhhhh...", "No!", or it's found in a sentence - "What are you talking about?", or "No, you can't!"

The biggest problem for English speakers are the 2nd and 3rd tones. It's easy, just by saying "What?" in a questioning tone, you have the (putonghua) Chinese 2nd tone right there. For the 3rd tone, all you need to do is pronounce the 'a' as in father and keep it going as long as you can. During that time, lower your voice a little bit to a lower note, then return to the original pitch you started out with. Practicing this way will help you if you don't have a way to hear a native speaker.

I have details about how to pronounce the tones in both Mandarin and Cantonese Chinese on my language learning website if you want to see them, or contact me.

[Lu Yi Si]

I have a similar problem with tones as most people. It seems luckily when you've spoken a word a thousand times and heard it a thousand times you just seem to pick up the correct tone after a while. It does seem to help if you know the meaning of the word with a different tone. I'd never say shi3 when I mean shi4!

Yet I have half hour converstaions with people that have understood every word I have said. I walk down the road and someone else won't understand the first sentence I say without me repeating it.