akdn Posted November 27, 2003 at 03:46 AM Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 at 03:46 AM Any tips for saying 出去 accurately? Lets pretend my tones are fine, I'm concerned with the differences between pinyin 'chu' and pinyin 'qu'. What should I notice about the differences in the way my mouth (particularly lips and tongue) should behave??? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smithsgj Posted November 27, 2003 at 04:49 AM Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 at 04:49 AM The vowels are different, primarily. In chu it's a bit like choo-choo but with the lips even more rounded. In qu it's like the French une or the German u with dots on. Start saying /i/ (i.e. 'ee' as in see) and then round the lips as if for the chu sound: that should do it. There's a difference in the consonant too. But is it fair to say that that's just in anticipation of the different vowel position? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akdn Posted November 27, 2003 at 05:42 AM Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 at 05:42 AM The vowels are different, primarily. In chu it's a bit like choo-choo but with the lips even more rounded. In qu it's like the French une or the German u with dots on. Thanks. So the lips are essentially in the same position for both sounds? To make the difference in the vowel sounds, it seems the tip of my tongue starts off in the centre of the mouth's cavity ('chu'), and moves forward so it's almost against my front teeth ('qu'). Is this right / helpful? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smithsgj Posted November 27, 2003 at 05:52 AM Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 at 05:52 AM Qu might be a bit less rounded, on reflection. More of a pout? Here are the tongue positions of the cardinal vowels on a schematic of the oral cavity. Chu has /u/, qu has /y/. "Close" means the tongue is close to the roof of your mouth. http://hctv.humnet.ucla.edu/departments/linguistics/VowelsandConsonants/course/chapter1/vowels.html Any native speakers care to comment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akdn Posted November 27, 2003 at 06:01 AM Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 at 06:01 AM Ah, it's been a while since I looked at that chart! Certainly helps out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fodun Posted November 27, 2003 at 06:15 AM Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 at 06:15 AM http://www.chinesenow.net/cnword/default.aspx in there, you would know the accurate pronounciation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smithsgj Posted November 27, 2003 at 07:26 AM Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 at 07:26 AM I had a look at that site Fodun but I couldn't see anything that would answer this question. Where on the site did you mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skylee Posted November 27, 2003 at 09:24 AM Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 at 09:24 AM Or if it is a furious shout, simply say "滾!!!!" (gun3 !!!!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoH Posted November 27, 2003 at 09:02 PM Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 at 09:02 PM A chinese friend told me a method for saying the ü sound (like in qu) properly... First say 'ee' with your mouth pulled back in a kind of smile, then keep your tongue in exactly the same position but move just your lips into an 'oo' shape. Now if you try to say 'oo' it should come out as ü. Yes, I know it sounds complicated. It seems to work though because every time I try it my friend gets really excited that I've said qu right for a change. ; ) The trouble is it's really hard to drop it into a sentence casually... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest luxingju Posted December 2, 2003 at 05:39 AM Report Share Posted December 2, 2003 at 05:39 AM 出(CHU1) you can pronounce as 'TRUE',and 去(QU4) may be hard in pronouncing the tone of 'ü'.At first you can learn to speak words such as 鱼(YU2).旅(LV3).绿(LV4) ,all of them have the tones of 'ü'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted December 3, 2003 at 08:04 PM Report Share Posted December 3, 2003 at 08:04 PM 出(CHU1) you can pronounce as 'TRUE',and 去(QU4) may be hard in pronouncing the tone of 'ü'.At first you can learn to speak words such as 鱼(YU2).旅(LV3).绿(LV4) ,all of them have the tones of 'ü'. Yes, I also find that the "ch" sound in Chinese sounds similiar, if not the same, as the "tr" sound in English. When I tell that to my American friends learning Chinese, they all agree but still can't seem to use that to their advantage in pronouncing "ch" sounds other than "chu". For example, when they try to pronounce "chi", they think of it as "tri" and therefore pronouncing it like "tree". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smithsgj Posted December 4, 2003 at 03:09 AM Report Share Posted December 4, 2003 at 03:09 AM I thought luxingju just meant the vowel. Tr... Interesting. You think it has what linguists call "r-colour"? These initial consonants seem to get a very different pronunciation in Taiwan cf mainland. Like cu and chu I reckon come out about the same here? So I just make q sound like ch, j sound like j, ch sound like c (=ts) and zh sound like z (=dz). Seems to work OK in Taiwan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted December 4, 2003 at 03:16 AM Report Share Posted December 4, 2003 at 03:16 AM So I just make q sound like ch, j sound like j, ch sound like c (=ts) and zh sound like z (=dz). Seems to work OK in Taiwan. I've always thought that Pinyin / English q = ch j = j x = sh until I went to China. But then again, I received my elementary education in Taiwan. I can't even pronounce the q where it's a halfway between "ch" and a "ts" or x where it's halfway between "sh" and "s" even though Mandarin is my native tongue. I too always recommend my Chinese-learning friends to make things easier for themselves just follow the "Taiwanese-way" since people understand it perfectly fine anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Yang Guizi Posted December 5, 2003 at 08:25 AM Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 at 08:25 AM how do you (personally) pronounce pinyin r ? Is it at all situational or just consistant within dialects (applying the term correctly, that is)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted December 5, 2003 at 02:28 PM Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 at 02:28 PM how do you (personally) pronounce pinyin r ?Is it at all situational or just consistant within dialects (applying the term correctly' date=' that is)?[/quote'] Are you refering to ri or er? Those two are different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smithsgj Posted December 8, 2003 at 03:07 AM Report Share Posted December 8, 2003 at 03:07 AM er (the whole syllable) gets pronounced as e in Taiwan: i.e. the r is ignored (almost?) completely. In Beijing speak and/or putonghua it sounds a bit like the ar in car in American English, but I think with the tongue rolled/curled a bit further back. ri (the whole syllable) is more consistent I think. Tongue high, tip almost touching the bump between your gums and the roof of your mouth. Then hold this position and try to say the French 'je' (which is the final consonant in 'beige' or the middle one in 'pleasure') For rang, reng, run etc it can be like ri with the and or whatever tacked on. But I think in Taiwan it's more like an English initial r, so reng basically sounds like 'rung'. I'm not a native speaker so say so if you disagree! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted December 8, 2003 at 03:12 AM Report Share Posted December 8, 2003 at 03:12 AM er (the whole syllable) gets pronounced as e in Taiwan: i.e. the r is ignored (almost?) completely. In Beijing speak and/or putonghua it sounds a bit like the ar in car in American English' date=' but I think with the tongue rolled/curled a bit further back.ri (the whole syllable) is more consistent I think. Tongue high, tip almost touching the bump between your gums and the roof of your mouth. Then hold this position and try to say the French 'je' (which is the final consonant in 'beige' or the middle one in 'pleasure') For rang, reng, run etc it can be like ri with the and or whatever tacked on. But I think in Taiwan it's more like an English initial r, so reng basically sounds like 'rung'. I'm not a native speaker so say so if you disagree![/quote'] You are generally correct. However, I don't believe it's safe to say that millions or billions of people speak the same way. What you stated is nothing more than a typical trend. It's not like people from Taiwan and mainland China are built differently therefore can only pronounce something a certain way. However, pronounciation is a little more uniformed in mainland than in Taiwan, at least from my experience. In Taiwan, if you get a "good" teacher, you'll most likely grow up being able to speak proper Mandarin. Otherwise, you'll sound just like how your teacher sounds. Parents play a role too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smithsgj Posted December 8, 2003 at 03:35 AM Report Share Posted December 8, 2003 at 03:35 AM THere was a type in my post. It should have read "For rang, reng, run etc it can be like ri with the ANG or whatever tacked on" Regarding your other point, Kulong: [not in a linguistic topic, thanks. Check your pm's. Roddy] Taiwan has developed its own distinct phonemic inventory, as well as distinct lexical and semantic patterns. Of course, this is not to say that it is beyond the bounds of possibility for a Taiwanese to speak Chinese Chinese, or vice versa. Indeed, with careful training and a long period of residence in the foreign country, it should be possible for the one group to mimic the other quite effectively. However, the differing economic situations in the two countries have led to an interesting phenomenon, related to diet. While it is not quite true to say that Taiwanese and Chinese people are "built differently", the more nutritionally balanced diet of the Taiwanese has resulted in a heavier build. The oral cavity is slightly larger, is of a slightly different shape, and more of the original teeth are retained. This has led to some variation in articulatory posture on the two sides of the Taiwan straits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest EnChanTresS Posted December 15, 2003 at 01:43 AM Report Share Posted December 15, 2003 at 01:43 AM http://www.courses.fas.harvard.edu/~pinyin/ this is the best i've found. ^_^ best of luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 杨兴业 Posted March 13, 2004 at 11:55 AM Report Share Posted March 13, 2004 at 11:55 AM 出去 pronounced as i think, i might be wrong as i dont know how to write it correctly, chuut *no sound of 't' just stop at 't'* hoi i rekon chuut hoi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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