Pronunciation of 出去

[smithsgj]

That's Cantonese isn't it?

[Quest]

That's Cantonese isn't it?

I think some overseas Chinese(esp. the descendents of) really think Cantonese is THE language of China.

I would have written it as "Tsuut Heui" for Cantonese.

[Guest 杨兴业]

I think some overseas Chinese(esp. the descendents of) really think Cantonese is THE language of China.

I would have written it as "Tsuut Heui" for Cantonese.

oh well, doesnt matter wat you write either tsuut heui or wateva as long as you can speak cantonese.

well....overseas china really think cantonese is the language of china? i dont get it. are you refering to me?

cantonese is just a dialect of mostly southern china (a bit of cantonese in guanxi next neighbour to guangdong) and overseas. and mandarin is the official language of china. but actually there are many dialect of china.

well i must have misreaded that he want it in cantonese where actually he want it in mandarin =/. just my mistake.

[smithsgj]

That's fair enough 杨兴业. But Q raises an interesting point.

And not only overseas. In Macau me n a native Mandarin speaker asked directions from a policeman. His English wasn't perfect so he said "Do you speak Chinese?" in English. "Yes" we replied, and he started rattling off in Cantonese.

It's OK. It *IS* Chinese after all!

[hparade]

yes, in hongkong, when people talk about speaking chinese, they refer to cantonese, so i think in beijing, people refer to mandarin; there are many dialects in china, but since overseas chinese are dormianted by cantonese, they usually refer chinese to cantonese and some even *think* it is the language of china (not knowing there are many others), but the situation is changing when more and more mainland chinese are going overseas.....

[sunyata]

I think it's unfair for some to comment that overseas chinese (althought not all) thinks cantonese is THE language of China. I don't know about other overseas countries, but in HK, the education system has long been demanding Mandarin classes be taught at most schools. I don't know if that has changed. Nevertheless, people are well aware that Mandarin is the offical language of China. Also, since '97, the increasing number of people from China visiting/moving to HK makes learning Mandarin almost mandatory. So, I think it's not right for some to assume that overseas people are ignorant about which is the offical language of China.

As to the policman's automatic answer in Cantonese, Cantonese IS a dialect of the Chinese language. I think his response to his earlier question "Do you speak Chinese?" is perfectly legitament (sorry about spelling) and I don't see how that implies that he thinks cantonese is the offical language of China

[Quest]

hk is not overseas... many foreign born Chinese do think Cantonese is the language of China.

(ok I know 888 is lucky, but I will move on )

[smithsgj]

When I said

It's OK. It *IS* Chinese after all!

Sunyata, I meant that the reply in Cantonese was legitimate. I know it's not comparable to someone addressing you in a Jamaican creole after enquiring first whether you speak English, but it still struck us as interesting.

In Taiwan nobody would ever refer to Taiwanese as "Chinese" or 中文, but both these terms (and of course especially the first) are often used to mean 國語. I'm not commenting on whether Taiwan counts as overseas or not.

[ala]

If 台语 is not 中文, what is it then?

I've always thought 中文 refers to all the Sinitic languages. To me saying 台语 is not 中文, is saying that French is not a Romance language.

汉语 refers mainly to Mandarin now (due to Mandarin dictionaries being called 汉语词典), although its technical meaning used in Chinese linguistics still refers to the family of Sinitic languages.

For example, 汉语语音学 would refer to the study of phonologies for all the dialects of Chinese.

[smithsgj]

If 台语 is not 中文, what is it then?

I don't Ala. Many things? A can of worms?

I mean obviously it's a dialect or language or fangyan or whatever of Chinese: I don't dispute that for a second! All I was saying was that 台语 and 中文 (but more often 國語) are used in Taiwan to refer to the two varieties. 中文 (and sometimes 國文) is also used to refer to the language when it's written down (well, Mandarin again then).

If you asked someone taiwanese "Is 台語 a form of 中文?" though, the answer would be Yes. But in normal usage 中文 is Mandarin.

I'm certainly not trying to assert that Mandarin has any more right to be styled "Chinese" than other dialects. I'm just stating the facts as I understand them.