TSkillet Posted December 5, 2003 at 05:03 PM Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 at 05:03 PM I went to someone's going away party last night (she was returning to Shanghai) and there were a bunch of mainland Chinese (and one Chinese-American - me) and the conversation topic drifted towards dialects too - everyone wanted to try their Cantonese pronuciation on me (for some reason EVERY Chinese person I know can say "Sik tang, mm sik gong" - meaning "I can understand Cantonese, but I don't know how to speak" I just thought it was interesting that Chinese Chinese people would be just as interested in localization and regionalization of language as a bunch of people on an internet Chinese language forum. That is all. Carry on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted December 5, 2003 at 05:11 PM Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 at 05:11 PM I wouldn't have a clue why you find that surprising... afterall, don't the native regionalect speakers LIVE in China? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smithsgj Posted December 8, 2003 at 03:19 AM Report Share Posted December 8, 2003 at 03:19 AM I think these ones live in Houston don't they? But like Kulong I can't see why it's surprising. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pazu Posted December 8, 2003 at 03:44 PM Report Share Posted December 8, 2003 at 03:44 PM (for some reason EVERY Chinese person I know can say "Sik tang, mm sik gong" - meaning "I can understand Cantonese, but I don't know how to speak" Yes, tell me why please. So many times that when people found out I was a Cantonese speaker then told me, "sik teng ng sik gong"... for the first few times, I found that interesting, but then I found that quite ... hmmm... how can I say, just imagine you hear the same joke every 10 times a day (and I'm actually just exaggerating), I really had to force myself to SMILE! :o :? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted December 8, 2003 at 07:10 PM Report Share Posted December 8, 2003 at 07:10 PM Yes, tell me why please. So many times that when people found out I was a Cantonese speaker then told me, "sik teng ng sik gong"... for the first few times, I found that interesting, but then I found that quite ... hmmm... how can I say, just imagine you hear the same joke every 10 times a day (and I'm actually just exaggerating), I really had to force myself to SMILE! :o :? To them it's nothing more than a friendly gesture. But because that's about the extend of their knowledge on Cantonese, they can't say much else. Would you rather for them to be friendly and say "sik teng ng sik gong" or look down on you because you speak cantonese? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSkillet Posted December 8, 2003 at 08:32 PM Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2003 at 08:32 PM kulong - please read my post and let me know where I wrote the word "surprising"? Because I don't have a clue how you read "surprising" anywhere. (hint, the word I used was "interesting") The point is this, really - Americans abroad don't sit around and talk about the differences in New England accents vs. Californian accents when we're all sitting around a dinner table in Hong Kong. It's not really a point of interest amongst American English speakers. I just thought it was interesting that Chinese take much more interest in their own language and the differences within it than say a group of equivilant english speakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted December 8, 2003 at 09:00 PM Report Share Posted December 8, 2003 at 09:00 PM kulong - please read my post and let me know where I wrote the word "surprising"? Because I don't have a clue how you read "surprising" anywhere. (hint, the word I used was "interesting") You're right, the word you chose to use is "interesting". However, my personal impression of your post is that you find this "phenomenon" unusual. The point is this, really - Americans abroad don't sit around and talk about the differences in New England accents vs. Californian accents when we're all sitting around a dinner table in Hong Kong. It's not really a point of interest amongst American English speakers. I just thought it was interesting that Chinese take much more interest in their own language and the differences within it than say a group of equivilant english speakers. You can't compare New England accents and Californian accents with Mandarin and Cantonese. The difference between New England & Californian accents is probably closer to say Dongbei Mandarin & Southwest Mandarin (Sichuan). Also, the reason that Chinese, or any other people in the world, don't behave like Americans is because simply, they are not Americans. Like I mentioned in another thread, don't try to force your own values onto others. You wouldn't want others to judge you by their cultural values right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunku Posted December 8, 2003 at 09:01 PM Report Share Posted December 8, 2003 at 09:01 PM Chinese people are also interested in the regional differences of other languages. My Chinese students used to ask me a lot about American vs. British English. My Chinese friends in Kunming also get a big kick out of videos and songs done in the local langauge instead of putonghua, not to mention if I spoke Kunminghua (endlessly amusing, I assure you all). I think, in general (very very general) Chinese people are a bit more attunded to how language sounds than English speakers are. Just consider how much Chinese humor depends on puns and wordplay. Most Chinese have an opinion as to which Chinese accent sounds the best, and of course, good putonghua is a sign of a decent education, while poor putonghua can indicate low social standing. So perhaps Chinese people have a greater interest in accents because accents have a more important role in Chinese culture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted December 8, 2003 at 09:07 PM Report Share Posted December 8, 2003 at 09:07 PM So perhaps Chinese people have a greater interest in accents because accents have a more important role in Chinese culture. I would agree. It's the same reason why typical American men tend to enjoy American football while rest of the world, especially Latin America and Europe, prefer soccer. It's as simple as that each culture is different because of how the society was developed and how it was affected by different events throughout history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roddy Posted December 9, 2003 at 01:52 AM Report Share Posted December 9, 2003 at 01:52 AM Like I mentioned in another thread, don't try to force your own values onto others. I didn't notice any forcing of cultural values. All I saw was an observation of a cultural difference in behaviour - and if we can't do that without someone deciding we are forcing our cultural values onto others, we might as well give up and go home. Roddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted December 9, 2003 at 02:02 AM Report Share Posted December 9, 2003 at 02:02 AM Like I mentioned in another thread, don't try to force your own values onto others. I didn't notice any forcing of cultural values. All I saw was an observation of a cultural difference in behaviour - and if we can't do that without someone deciding we are forcing our cultural values onto others, we might as well give up and go home. Roddy I didn't say that anyone in THIS thread has tried to force their own values on others. However, I mentioned it because the first step toward forcing your own values onto others is JUDGING others with your own values. When one makes an observation, shouldn't we try to understand the other party and try to be as objective as we can be? However, this is your forum. Whether you encourage people to judge others with their own values or not is up to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roddy Posted December 9, 2003 at 02:13 AM Report Share Posted December 9, 2003 at 02:13 AM Like I mentioned in another thread, don't try to force your own values onto others. Looks pretty clear to me. When one makes an observation, shouldn't we try to understand the other party and try to be as objective as we can be? Certainly. There's absolutely no point in saying that they are trying to force their own cultural values onto another culture, for example. Roddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted December 9, 2003 at 02:16 AM Report Share Posted December 9, 2003 at 02:16 AM Like I mentioned in another thread, don't try to force your own values onto others. Looks pretty clear to me. When one makes an observation, shouldn't we try to understand the other party and try to be as objective as we can be? Certainly. There's absolutely no point in saying that they are trying to force their own cultural values onto another culture, for example. Roddy Have I named any names or even specifically said that someone in this thread has made such an offense? Believe me, if I really caught someone stating anything offensive, such as senor boogie woogie did in the coffee thread (which you responded to promptly, thank you), I would clearly point it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roddy Posted December 9, 2003 at 09:37 AM Report Share Posted December 9, 2003 at 09:37 AM Have I named any names or even specifically said that someone in this thread has made such an offense? Er, no, but I fail to see why you would say this in this topic unless you thought someone had done so, and it was therefore relevant. My reading was certainly that you thought someone had done this. Did you just decide to randomly drop in some advice on cross-cultural communication, or was there a reason behind your instructions? Roddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pazu Posted December 9, 2003 at 03:37 PM Report Share Posted December 9, 2003 at 03:37 PM Yes' date=' tell me why please. So many times that when people found out I was a Cantonese speaker then told me, "sik teng ng sik gong"... for the first few times, I found that interesting, but then I found that quite ... hmmm... how can I say, just imagine you hear the same joke every 10 times a day (and I'm actually just exaggerating), I really had to force myself to SMILE! :o :?[/quote']To them it's nothing more than a friendly gesture. But because that's about the extend of their knowledge on Cantonese, they can't say much else. Would you rather for them to be friendly and say "sik teng ng sik gong" or look down on you because you speak cantonese? Oh, my good Kulong, don't divide the world into black and white and ignore the gray. While I don't want people to tell me the same Cantonese phrase again and again, it doesn't have any implications that I wanted to be insulted. I know this is a good gesture of them and that's why although I found that extremely boring I still force myself to SMILE! Oh I feel really tired whenever people explain the goodwill of the other people, whenever you tell somebody that it was tiresome to hear "what's your good name?/how many bros do you have?" in India and Pakistan, there're always some good and nice people turn up (your fellow travellers, or some posters from Lonely Planet Thorntree, etc) and tell you it was indeed the goodwill of the people, they're just interested in you, they're just showing their friendship to you, that you should be patient enuf just to listen to their everlasting questions/greetings/jokes every night and day. Okay, in case there're some misunderstanding of what my response was, I have to say again, I force myself to SMILE! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted December 9, 2003 at 05:55 PM Report Share Posted December 9, 2003 at 05:55 PM Pazu: All I'm saying is that just be glad at least these people are friendly to you. You can't always get things your way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted December 9, 2003 at 06:01 PM Report Share Posted December 9, 2003 at 06:01 PM Er, no, but I fail to see why you would say this in this topic unless you thought someone had done so, and it was therefore relevant. My reading was certainly that you thought someone had done this. I apologize for posting irrelevant information and wasting your precious space (less than 4 kilobyte to be exact). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smithsgj Posted December 10, 2003 at 01:21 AM Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 at 01:21 AM Less than 4kb? That doesn't sound very exact to me! > Pazu: All I'm saying is that just be glad at least these people are friendly to you. You can't always get things your way. Kulong, Pazu already said the Cantonese comment made him smile. He doesn't think the people are being unfriendly, he doesn't want things "his way"; he was just making an observation (a cultural observation, I would say -- not out of place in a forum on Chinese culture) which I for one found interesting. Repetitiveness of the "sik gong...", "good name", "give me pen", "donnez-moi bonbon", "nide putonghua shuode hen biaozhun" school can be annoying'; but it's nothing compared to repetitiveness Kulong-style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roddy Posted December 10, 2003 at 01:25 AM Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 at 01:25 AM I apologize for posting irrelevant information and wasting your precious space Space I'm not that worried about. Time isn't cheap though. Roddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted December 10, 2003 at 01:54 AM Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 at 01:54 AM Less than 4kb? That doesn't sound very exact to me! Ha! That's because the smallest file size is 4kb. > Pazu: All I'm saying is that just be glad at least these people are friendly to you. You can't always get things your way.Kulong, Pazu already said the Cantonese comment made him smile. I really had to force myself to SMILE! He specifically said it's a forced smile. He doesn't think the people are being unfriendly, he doesn't want things "his way"; he was just making an observation (a cultural observation, I would say -- not out of place in a forum on Chinese culture) which I for one found interesting. or the first few times, I found that interesting, but then I found that quite ... hmmm... how can I say, just imagine you hear the same joke every 10 times a day Obviously the word that he was searching for was "annoying". What other feeling do you get when you "hear the same joke every 10 times a day"? In other words, Mandarin-speakers who are interested in Cantonese tried to be friendly toward him but without knowing their actions annoy him. There's clearly a misunderstanding. I was merely trying to clear things up that there are things that annoy us all the time, complaining won't help. Repetitiveness of the "sik gong...", "good name", "give me pen", "donnez-moi bonbon", "nide putonghua shuode hen biaozhun" school can be annoying'; but it's nothing compared to repetitiveness Kulong-style. I beg your pardon, was that a personal attack? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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