You wanted me to come back this forum and tell my experience, should I?

[imron]

Re 'centre of the world': I've never come across that. Never.

C'mon, it's right there in the name... 中国

[AdamD]

heh. Yes, but I've never come across anyone in China who's acted with that degree of arrogance about the language. Patriotic, yes. Surprise that my conversational Chinese is lacking, never.

[imron]

At least where I come from, China is sold as the paladin of the new multi polarized world and our big socialist brother

This is the one piece of propaganda that China has done a really good job of promoting - and they had to, in order to convince their own people.  The oft-touted 'socialism with Chinese characteristics' is basically just capitalism, but after denigrating capitalism for decades they couldn't just do an about face and say 'oops we were wrong about capitalism' and still keep the support of the people, and so lo-and-behold, socialism with Chinese characteristics was born.

 

The best start to my new year would be to see this thread being locked !!

If it gets out of hand, it will be moderated and or locked, however this sort of thread can also serve as a really useful perspective for people coming to China with similar misconceptions as the OP.

[Shelley]

I didn't make the 1 year of chinese, AND BEFORE any of you say something, Yes I always wanted to pass trough the 1 year chinese course, for me would be more practical, I didn't choose it because I was initially very afraid about 1 year chinese language studies not being enough for me performing in chinese lectures. BUT HEY! Now I have to perform in Chinese lectures with out a clue of chinese language, how about that!!

 

This may be the root of all your problems.

 

Welcome to the real world, where life is hard and not all people are nice.

 

.

[johnk]

Hi Sujeto,

I read your original posts and at one point I seriously considered posting to it. I then changed my mind and let it go.

From your very first post, you struck me as incredibility naive with lots of preconceived and wrong ideas.

 

China is a foreign country.

Not that seems like an obvious statement. But many people, including people who are experienced travellers, find China to be a huge cultural shock. For practical purposes, nobody in China speaks English nor indeed any other non-Chinese language. They use a writing system that is totally unintelligible to outsiders. They have a very different culture and outlook to Westerners. Many people who go to China live in a cultural bubble, a comfort zone, if you like. Then there are  people like the members of this forum who are interested in China and who endeavor to understand the language and culture.

 

I suspect that even if you went to a less foriegn country eg. the US or the UK where you could speak the language and meet other Spanish speaking South Americans, you would still have a culture shock and a period of re-adjustment. You would probably find it very hard to go to a country like Germany of France where you could not speak the language. The world outside is not what you seem to think it is.

 

I don't know you, I have never met you, but you come across very badly in your posts. I hope you don't come across as badly in real life. Yes there are scam artists in China just like there are in London. There is bureaucracy and idiotic officials just like you will find in London. China is not some communist utopia, it is a developing country and it is developing very quickly. I would say it is more a capalist country than the US. A few hours research on the Internet would have told you this and much more before you ever left home.

 

The way I see it you have two choices:-

*) Either get to hell out of China as quickly as you can. you come across in these posts as a naive, angry and frankly stupid young man. I have always found Chinese people to be tolerant and easy going but even in China an angry young man can come to grief.

*) Your other choice is to embrace the change, learn Chinese and experience this different world. You would have to do a lot of growing up. From the tone of your posts so far, I don't hold much hope of this, but if you can do it, then there is a lot to gain.

 

One way or the other, I wish you the best of look. Take care.

[renzhe]

Unfortunately, some universities in China do attract foreign students purely for money and don't take good care of them. And unfortunately, many foreign students and expats just see it as a giant excuse to party (you should see the Erasmus students in Europe, no different). Unfortunately, taxi drivers in China (and many other places!) will scam you, especially at airports. Happened to me in Switzerland, even.

So you have some legitimate complaints and, being in a new country far away from home, I can understand that you're upset. Everybody gets upset in a new country at some point, and 3 months is a typical low from a culture shock perspective.

But I still don't think that you have the right attitude needed to leave your country and go across the world to a country you know nothing about. You did no research, had unreasonable expectations, and were in no way prepared for China. You expected all the wrong things (socialism, English speakers, hand-holding), and are not interested at all in the wonderful things that China actually has to offer.

I've known many exchange students in Europe over the years. Some enjoy the experience, some hate it. People who love the unexpected are called adventurers, and if you can't name 3 things you loved about China after three months, you are not an adventurer.

[StChris]

I hope this thread doesn't get locked (and I hope the OP doesn't delete his posts like last time). There's a raw energy to the OP's writing style ("so why you shock yourself MF" is a favourite of mine too!), and, as someone who's lived in Harbin before, I think there's some truth amid all the nonsense. As for the more "controversial" parts, I think everyone's replies provide a good alternative persective.

[realmayo]

however this sort of thread can also serve as a really useful perspective for people coming to China with similar misconceptions as the OP.

 

Definitely.

 

Plus the OP is from Venezuela (I think?) and suggests he soaked up a lot of pro-China 'socialist brothers' concepts from the state.. If we're being all you-must-understand-you're-in-a-foreign-country, maybe understand and tolerate that the OP came from a country that is different to your own. (But some of his language and behaviour on the forums discourages that, sure.)

 

 

Yes there are scam artists in China just like there are in London. There is bureaucracy and idiotic officials just like you will find in London

 

Erm, you must have had extraordinary experiences in one of those two places if you're going to say they're equivalent in terms of scams and bureaucracy.

[renzhe]

Erm, you must have had extraordinary experiences in one of those two places if you're going to say they're equivalent in terms of scams and bureaucracy.

I don't wish to steer this too far off-topic, some of the stuff Chinese tourists and students face in Europe is insane. I know of at least 10 occasions of someone having a passport or money stolen, and there are corrupt policemen who prey on Chinese tourists and extort money with fake charges (mostly in Italy). And airport taxis will scam you everywhere, if they suspect you don't know the city -- Bonn and Zurich, in my case. A nice, scenic ride, but I knew Zurich, and a friend of mine grew up in Bonn, so it didn't go down well.

I agree that China can be quite bad in terms of scams, but I've seen so much stuff everywhere that I see it as a scammer-tourist problem rather than a Chinese-foreigner problem like it's presented by the OP.

[skylee]

You did no research, had unreasonable expectations, and were in no way prepared for China.

I remember that the OP did research before he went to China. He asked questions here. Perhaps that was not enough, but there were some constraints in his circumstances IIRC.

[johnk]

Erm, you must have had extraordinary experiences in one of those two places if you're going to say they're equivalent in terms of scams and bureaucracy.

 

As Renzhe said.

 

Plus, one of my workmates is Indian. He spent a week last month getting letters signed, forms filled in, and a trip of 40 miles to another town for fingerprints for him and his wife to get his residence permit. The cost was about £1000.

[renzhe]

Unfortunately, he didn't seem to ask the questions that seem the most important to him -- the quality of education in HIT and the "socialism" aspect.

[Mr John]

I know there is a bit of history with this poster and that he's overstepped the mark in the past, but I think there's a bit of willfull misinterpretation going on in some of the responses. Either that or there has been editing going on which I'm not aware of.

 

For me, many of his points are reasonable. Sure, China isn't really a socialist country anymore but it doesn't seem that crazy to me to wonder if there might be some cultural vestige. I was definitely curioius about this prior to going there.

 

Having to rely on people who have their own things to worry about, and who should not be responsible for you is also something I can relate to.

 

The course was meant to be in English, it wasn't. It appears that nobody wanted to take responsibility for resolving this problem: I'd be pissed too.

 

Even people asking, "Did you understand?" I can relate to. My co-workers use to ask me if I could understand and/or manage things despite knowing that I couldn't speak Chinese. At the time it drove me up the wall. With the benefit of hindsight I can see they were probably actually trying to show concern for my welfare.

 

Even the people laughing at the poster strikes a chord. Again, the problem is with the interpretation. When nothing is making sense, a negative interpretation is more likely. It's very possible that they were simply embarrassed at being unable to handle the situation, rather than out to make fun of the poster.

 

Finally, the comment about foreigners. I don't see the use of "all" in his post. I also don't think it was aimed at the members of this website. I think most of us can admit there is a fair degree of truth in it. I found myself struggling against those very stereotypes with many of the Chinese I met.

 

Having had a difficult start to my own time in China I'm willing to cut him some slack. Culture shock is hard enough without even the most basic things working out as promised.

 

Finally, I really strongly disagree with the suggestion made by one commenter that his post be removed. While I understand that the choice of language is a bit wayward at times, I think the overall points made have at least some truth in them.

 

I'm also happy to be corrected if others think I'm off on this one.

 

P.S - My apologies, I should have read the posts more carefully. The request to "lock" not "remove".

[Demonic_Duck]

I think you're being too charitable. This poster's history is one of asking for advice, then ignoring the advice given, and getting angry (and saying very offensive things) when things don't turn out as he hoped and expected.

 

Culture shock is fine. It's to be expected in the vast majority of cases, and getting it doesn't make you a bad person or anything. And the thing where a course is advertised as being English-taught yet is taught in Chinese strikes me as utterly ridiculous - I'd be angry as hell if the same thing happened to me and I couldn't speak Chinese. But that's no excuse to make blanket, ignorant statements about Chinese people and foreigners living in China (so basically... everyone who lives in China. Except for the OP himself, presumably, who is completely blameless). Nor is it an excuse for assuming that everyone everwhere in the world should be able to speak English (especially when his own English is pretty bad).

[anonymoose]

I don't think you'll get very far trying to persuade the university to provide courses for you in English, unless there is a substantial number of foreigners in the same situation. And not being able to speak Chinese, that puts you in a tough position. Even if you study by yourself, I don't know how you're going to tackle the exams.

 

I think that, other than just dropping the whole venture, which would be a shame, you could maybe see if you could transfer onto the Chinese language program. Yes, you've missed the first three months, but if the other foreigners are as lackadaisical as you say, then you should be able to catch up fairly quickly. The end result will be that either you can learn enough Chinese to cope with the course starting from next year, or not, but at least you will have got something (Chinese language) out of your time.

 

I agree that being told the course would be in English, and then finding out that it isn't, is a devastating blow. But since this is the reality you are faced with, you can either try to make the best of a bad situation (which is not limited to HIT, by the way), or just be defeated by it. I don't see why you have such a hostile attitude to the teachers, though, who ask whether you can speak Chinese or can understand the classes. They probably had nothing to do with accepting students onto the course, and it would not be unreasonable to expect a foreigner who turns up in your Chinese-taught class to be able to speak Chinese. I mean, from their point of view, they are probably just as incredulous as you are about the university encouraging non-Chinese speakers to attend courses taught in Chinese. In fact, their asking shows concern, even if they don't really have any power to resolve the situation.

 

And as for socialism, I seem to recall from your other thread about you complaining about the current state of your home country. Well, that's what socialism does. I'm not sure what kind of socialist utopia you were expecting, but for all of the negative aspects of modern Chinese society, it would be difficult to argue that China was better off under its truely socialist system than it is now.

[Demonic_Duck]

And as for socialism, I seem to recall from your other thread about you complaining about the current state of your home country. Well, that's what socialism does.

Socialism comes in many stripes, you can't write it off that easily. Denmark, Finland, Sweden etc. aren't doing too bad (and are a hell of a lot more socialist than China).

[maomao2014]

Didn't you see a red flag when you stepped in China? It is a warning sign.

 

Yes, most Chinese departments (including universities) are disorganized. And most Chinese university students after 12 years of crazy studying turn to idiots after spending 4 years in Uni like me (from Knowing everything in heaven above and earth underneath 3 months before Gaokao 上知天文下知地理 to know nothing lol）

[sujeto]

[Demonic_Duck]

other persons informed me that here you cannot use google neither facebook or youtube, I didn't know this at all, I even asked chinese embassy about this, they didn't answer and says we are not sure

Unfortunately, that's the kind of answer you're going to get from the official channels. They avoid confirming or denying acts of censorship, even though they're blatantly obvious and it's not like they're fooling anyone.

 

If you still haven't sorted this, there's plenty of information available online (this forum and elsewhere) about VPNs and other circumvention methods.

 

As for Chinese people "mocking" you because you can't speak Chinese, that's a complaint I've never heard from any expats in China before. I have a friend who lived in Hangzhou for a while, and unfortunately never really managed to adapt to life there. He basically hates everything about China now, but even he never mentioned this particular complaint. I don't think it can be a specific Harbin thing either - there are a good few people on the forums who are in Harbin right now, and I don't recall them ever mentioning this.

 

I'm assuming that either they're not actually mocking you, and there's some cultural/linguistic misunderstanding going on, or that they're mocking you for some other reason, like constantly being angry and calling them "MFs".

[renzhe]

I have learned to talk strong and point at counting machine and look at them at the eyes and even show them my fist, so they don't try to scam me anymore.

Well, that is not exactly a good way to make friends, or make people like you.

You'll get much further if you keep firm, but don't lose your cool and act friendly. In developing countries, people will sometimes test how far they can go with you, losing your temper only makes it worse.