Any feedback about getting a master's degree taught in chinese?

[anonymoose]

So If I understand well, I must be prepared to study a lot by myself if I want to feel satisfied with the educational level.

 

No. You must be prepared to study a lot by yourself, and you still won't be satisfied with the educational level.

 

I studied physics in the UK, and medicine in China. Obviously they are different disciplines, so one cannot make a direct comparison. What I can say, though, is that at my university in the UK, we handed in at least two assignments per week, and received feedback and the opportunity to discuss the material directly with the tutors. Of course, there was a lot of self-study involved, but I feel that at the same time, there was some real teaching going on.

 

In China, on the other hand, for most of the courses, we never had to hand any work in. Occasionally, we had to write an essay, in place of a mid-term exam, but this was not usually returned to us, and we would not receive any feedback other than an overall grade for the course. So, yes, the university will assess you, but there is next to nothing in terms of teaching. If it weren't for the degree certificate you get at the end, frankly, you wouldn't get much more by being enrolled at a university than you could gain purely by independent study.

[Angelina]

When was this Anonymoose? I wish I am seeing more discussion and groundbreaking ideas, yet, I am receiving much more feedback than you were. Maybe things are changing in China. Someone said American and European universities are superior, they are, but things are changing and we can't completely ignore them.

NYU Shanghai is better than East China Normal in general. However, can we say East China Normal is a bad university? No. Should we discourage people from studying there? No.

[rezaf]

@Angelina：In a perfect world I would wish to be born to a Chinese family with my ancestors being the 御醫 for ten generations but since that's not an option and I am not even Chinese I have to learn how to deal with my seriously imperfect situation. Obviously there are minimum requirements for language fluency so that one can function as a student at university and one has to master the medical terminology but the rest doesn't need to be native level. Eventually I want to have perfect Chinese, perfect TCM and perfect modern medical knowledge but I have learned to be patient and make short term and long term goals for myself. My short term goals ensure that I can actively function as a TCM student and as long as I can do that there are lots of details that can be learned on the way. I have not given up on my long term goals. It's just that I am now more patient and ready to play the game in the long run so I focus on each ability according to my priorities.

[Angelina]

"Obviously there are minimum requirements for language fluency so that one can function as a student at university and one has to master the medical terminology but the rest doesn't need to be native level. "

And we all know why the requirements have been set this low.

Your plan is great. My suggestion is to try to achieve native level fluency if you want to be taken seriously as a TCM practitioner who studied in China.

[rezaf]

@anonymoose: I'm just curious. Are you working in the medical field in Shanghai?

[Angelina]

Anonymoose would probably want to stay anonymoose. 

[Aphorisme]

Anonymoose, it seems that chinese education and french legal education are very close. In France, you have very few opportunities to discuss the material with the tutor. You just go to an amphitheater with 300+ other students, write what the teacher says like a robot, and then have a lot of work to do every week (but REALLY a lot: reading many legal decisions, writing an essay/ commenting a decision per week at least). Then you have also the so-called "minors", which consist in learning by heart 500+ pages every semester, and the related exams consist in checking that you really learnt it by heart (no thinking involved). French system produce lawyers able to work really, really hard and who are technicians. Really different from UK education; I had some courses with teachers who were coming from Oxford law school, and these courses emphasized discussion and comprehension more than rote learning. These courses were less technical also. Friends of mine are now studying law in Oxford/ UCL, and they told me that it is like holidays compared to the mass of work that is required in French good law school. But I think french system should change, as it is too conservative and i believe that while UK system teaches you how to think, french system just teaches you how to learn (that's why my friends who study in Oxford prefer UK system and now consider french system as absurd!). All this to say that I guess the gap between UK education and Chinese education is bigger than the gap between french and chinese educations. Maybe I won't be as disappointed as much as english students are, because the change of scene won't be that total for me? 

[anonymoose]

@anonymoose: I'm just curious. Are you working in the medical field in Shanghai?

 

No.

 

Maybe I won't be as disappointed as much as english students are, because the change of scene won't be that total for me?

 

I don't know much about the French education system, or studying law in China. What I wrote above is just my personal perspective of my personal experience studying medicine here.

[gato]

The Chinese system for law at most universities is pretty close to kdavid's description of his experience studying history: lectures by mostly apathetic teachers and very little homework and outside reading.

[Flickserve]

Imagine a Chinese doctor of European medicine being unable to write a paper or a book in English, but claims to have a degree from Harvard Medical School? I don't want to be that person.

haha, there are many native speakers of English language medical schools who would be horrified at the prospect of writing a paper or a book.

Studying for a degree is one thing. Writing a paper is another and a staged learning process.

[Flickserve]

Double post

[Angelina]

haha, there are many native speakers of English language medical schools who would be horrified at the prospect of writing a paper or a book. 

Studying for a degree is one thing. Writing a paper is another and a staged learning process.

 

Since we are talking about graduate school, I wonder how can anyone manage to finish it without being fully literate. I don't think anyone can get a medical degree in an English-speaking country without being able to write papers like an adult. How can you do your homework? The same should happen in China. Academic misconduct is something different. I encourage people to study in China, I don't encourage people to engage in academic misconduct. 

 

No one mentioned the legal systems. There is civil law in China, France, and Macedonia, while the UK and the US have common law. Studying law in a country where the legal system is based on civil law asks for a lot of memorization. There is a legal code that has to be memorized. 

 

All this to say that I guess the gap between UK education and Chinese education is bigger than the gap between french and chinese educations. Maybe I won't be as disappointed as much as english students are, because the change of scene won't be that total for me? 

 

You are right. Macedonian students of law also have to learn a lot of things by heart because the legal system is like that. 

[Flickserve]

For medicine, full literacy is not the same ability to write a paper (a good one). It's not automatic.

The same as being fully literate also does not mean you can do good presentations. I have seen plenty of bad ones by native speakers.

There is a reason why there are many books or seminars on how to write a paper or how to do presentations.

I wouldn't give an opinion on law as that is not my field.

[ZhangKaiRong]

Does anyone in China care about presentations/is able to present? My experience is that they completely lack this skill (or at least have a different view on how a good presentation looks like). Same goes for Japanese. And unfortunately, it's not just a problem of academics, "businessmen" are also bad at giving a proper presentation. And they also don't care when they have to listen to a foreigner's presentation (happened a lot of times, they completely ignore you).

[Flickserve]

Exactly.

In fact, I put a lot of work myself into how to present. I went to the U.S. for a conference and I was highly impressed with the quality of the top academics.

I noticed the UK and Australian top guys in my field are also of comparable quality. But it's quite easy to go a bit further further down the ladder and you will notice a lot of imperfections. The most embarrassing one was an academic (not from UK, US nor Australia) saying information that was a few years out of date and being informed of this from the floor. Felt a bit sorry for that academic.

I put a lot of self work into this as I had to present my own work at conferences. My earliest supervisor have me an excellent book on how to present and academic paper. Before that, I always thought presenting was an innate skill. That book really opened my eyes to presentation techniques. Later, I even recorded a few presentations at conferences to postmortem and avoid the mistakes of other people.

To me, a good presentation projects a favourable image. Now, not everybody cares, but there are those few who take it as an indication of the expertise of the speaker and an icebreaker.

When you get a person come up and say you did a really good presentation and they enjoyed it, it's a very nice feeling.

[Flickserve]

No. You must be prepared to study a lot by yourself, and you still won't be satisfied with the educational level.

I studied physics in the UK, and medicine in China.

You have my respect in undertaking such a course in China. I did see one website trying to actively recruit Indian students to study medicine in China. So it's not that uncommon nowadays.

[christineh]

This hasn't been updated in awhile, but in case you're still considering it, I really think it'd be a good idea to reconsider. 

 

I would get the law degree in the country you're planning on practicing in, first. That is the most important thing to do, because it is the foundation on which any other career-relevant steps are based. The law of the country you practice in must be the framework of your understanding of any other law. 

 

Even beyond that, you may decide not to study law in the second country, or you may decide to work for a couple years first. If your ultimate goal is to practice in France, than get that education first, especially if it's as challenging of a program as it sounds. You may change your mind, but if you change your mind after studying law in China, that's a waste of the time in China, especially if you can't get a job. It also gives you a longer time to practice your Chinese, for a future program. 

 

If you're not sure you want to do law, then, yeah, sure, come to China for a language-program for a year or so to figure things out. This might be a good idea, even if you know you want to do law, but don't study law. The level of Chinese you would need to get a law degree is anything compared to the level of English needed to get a law degree in the US, then you would need to study it for literally years. You could get the basics and continue to improve when doing your law studies. (And if you don't think you'd have time for that, then you certainly don't have time to be teaching yourself the language as you learn the law in that country.)

 

I say this from experience, as a former law student in the US. While I still ultimately think that will pay off,  and for me, coming to China (MBA, not a law degree) is a step to help that happen, I sometimes actually think I might have been better off, having dropped out after my first year and just working in Retail Management. I know of many students, who were excellent students in all previous schooling who dropped out and many others who are not (and do not plan) to pursue a legal career despite graduating.