RARE DUAL Chinese and U.S Citizenship, PLEASE HELP.

[roddy]

"If I do get arrested, is the chinese government going to secretly kill me... =_= "

No, it'll be on TV. 

Let us know what your lawyers said, and how you get on. I think you can probably retain both passports, but you're not exerting any rights, you're just benefiting from a bit of a loophole.

 

Roddy the Troll. 
 

[DernierVirage]

I have read the thread to date and I have noticed that the OP can be very abrasive and impatient. I think it is important to give her some friendly advice, which is that an attitude like that will not help her one bit in China (in fact, it won't get her very far anywhere else either...). It is important in life to stay cool and polite.

[889]

On the other hand, telling a Chinese person how to behave in China won't get you very far, either.

[baobao1314]

roddy, I certainly will. You may disagree with me but you are not a troll.

DV on the other hand. You haven't made an actual contribution to this thread in terms of what I originally asked, instead you make personal attacks on me, which doesn't make you very polite either. If I wanted help with my personality, I would go talk to a therapist.

 

With that trollish personality of yours, you won't get very far in life.  

 

 

But being the totally polite person and dainty little girl that I am. I wish you the best of luck in your future endeavors. Keep trolling! You are great!

[Geiko]

"Dual" citizenship Chinese-X seems to be more and more frequent these days. http://www.latimes.com/world/asia/la-fg-china-citizenship-20150419-story.html

 

 

 

This means that Chinese authorities will not recognize a child's passport from the home country of one of his parents until the parents make a formal — and complicated — application to "cancel" their child's Chinese citizenship. The process can take a year. (...) she was told that her son could not receive a Chinese visa in his Russian passport, because, under Chinese law, he was considered a Chinese citizen. But because the boy also already had a Russian passport, he could not be recognized as a Chinese citizen until this "conflict of nationality" was resolved.

 

 

 

It seems that you don't automatically lose Chinese citizenship if they discover you have another passport.

[Flickserve]

Malaysia certainly doesn't allow dual nationality after the age of 21.

Neither does Singapore, iirc.

Are you able to get a 通行证? (I think that's how it is written)

[Simon_CH]

From all that I know about the topic I think it's best to not wake the sleeping dragon and just keep quiet about your dual citizenship. Be careful not to mention about being a US citizen while in China and just travel via HK. 

There are a lot of contradictions and complicated procedures if you want to sort out this issue, but lots of other people have it as well and just leave it be for the moment until China's legal system matures. 

[Silent]

 

 

just leave it be for the moment until China's legal system matures. 

 

How is China's legal system not mature? Sure it has its quirks just like any other legal system, but in the context of citizenship.... I think it's not that strange for a country to request to give up your other nationalities if you want it's nationality. Dual citizenship causes all kind of legal complications and it's also a matter of commitment. 

 

The Chinese have imho a fair point in allowing just one nationality, and to be consistent about it. Sure other solutions are possible, but I see no reason to consider the chosen approach not mature or not sensible.

[Simon_CH]

It's not the fact that they don't allow dual citizenship but the way it awards citizenship and then makes life difficult for people who have obtained another citizenship just the same way. The Chinese legal system apparently doesn't know how to cope with this in a consistent manner and there's all sorts of legal trouble for people trying to solve a problem they haven't created but simply inherited through their parent's different nationality. Hence the above mentioned lack of maturity of the legal system. Either a person born to both Chinese and foreign has to choose/commit to a citizenship (Chinese or not) at a certain age and lose the other or it's automatically awarded and therefore not exclusive. To try to have both doesn't make much sense and creates lots of troubles as seen with the OP. 

[Silent]

 

 

The Chinese legal system apparently doesn't know how to cope with this in a consistent manner and there's all sorts of legal trouble for people trying to solve a problem they haven't created but simply inherited through their parent's different nationality.

If I read this thread it looks to me they know they know very well how to cope with it. They give the the Chinese nationality if you're entitled to it and then if you choose (explicit or implicit by behaviour) not to commit to the Chinese citizenship they take it away. To me that looks pretty straightforward.

 

You can't blame the Chinese government for 'legal trouble' for people not willing to adhere to Chinese law but still wanting to keep Chinese citizenship. These people really cause the problems themselves by not making a choice but trying to keep all options open. I can understand people want to keep all options open and have dual citizenship as it gives access to all kinds of advantages (and sometimes disadvantages too). The fact that it's understandable doesn't change the fact that it's their choice if they choose the legally dodgy option.

[Lu]

According to that LA Times article linked upthread, it's not so straightforward and some people apparently need to go through a lengthy process to give up the Chinese nationality even when they legally couldn't even have it. China is entitled to not allow double nationality, but it looks like the implementation of that rule could be improved for the people affected by it.

[baobao1314]

If China's law was really mature, Maria's son wouldn't be stuck in China because the Chinese government refuse to give him a visa as seen in the LAtimes article. 

 

Note that the current Chinese judicial system only started around 1949. Dual citizenship didn't become a problem until China opened it's doors to foreigners around 1980's. Of course, this didn't have much impact until really the 1990's, China didn't have to deal with this matter until very recently. 

 

Also, there is a misconception about what it means to "adhere" to chinese law. 

China does not criminalize dual nationality. If it did, Maria wouldn't have gotten off with just waiting for a visa. Not recognizing dual nationality does not equal criminalizing dual nationality. Hence, I did not break the law as some people so eagerly put me on the spot for. 

 

Let's say I was given an apple from China, and an orange from the U.S. The Chinese law states, one cannot pick up an orange, you can only pick up apple. It never said one cannot receive an orange as, let's say, inheritance or as a gift. This is part of the Chinese law that has yet to mature, and the best thing about laws is that it's filled with opportunities. Laws change all the time because of certain cases. Roe vs Wade, Miranda vs. state, Brown vs board of education. The U.S has a pretty mature law when it comes down to dual citizenship. China is only just beginning to experience this problem. 

 

That was my "mature" reply to the topic. Gotta learn to be more "polite" less "abrasive" and "impatient." 

 

-Mibao the troll 

[baobao1314]

Btw, for those who are wondering. I will be going back to China on a 10 year visa on my U.S passport. 

 

For reasons I don't feel entirely comfortable addressing on a public forum, the end result will be I can maintain my chinese citizenship. For those who are wondering how, you can send me a personal message and I will be more than happy to walk you through the process. 

 

Special shout out to M000gle and 889 for always politely addressing my questions and not going off topic. 

 

Thanks to everyone else who has helped. I believe we can put an end to this topic now. Thanks!

[roddy]

Where's my special shout-out? Troll!!

[Silent]

 

According to that LA Times article linked upthread, it's not so straightforward and some people apparently need to go through a lengthy process to give up the Chinese nationality even when they legally couldn't even have it.

 

I may misread it, but I don't see anything about a lengthy process to give up Chinese citizenship. The reference of not giving chinese citizenship up quickly is in reference to obtaining a visa. In that context I interpret it as immediately or within days, bureaucracy needs some time.

 

The article is not very explicit about why these people run in trouble. To me it looks like these people (on purpose or due ignorance) don't play according to the Chinese rules. For one example it even clearly says so.

 

 

Unwilling to give up Kay's Russian passport and unable to quickly cancel his automatic Chinese citizenship, Gromakova and her husband decided, begrudgingly, to enroll him in school in Moscow.

 

Or these children can't legally have dual citizenship I doubt. As I understand it the Chinese law recognizes that due to circumstances one can have two nationalities. E.g. due to automatic assignment at birth, it's just that then a choice has to be made. The article 9 that Roddy referred to states 'of his own free will' for a reason.

 

A grey area may be, if at birth a nationality is acquired that can't be given up. E.g. Moroccan. The moment that nationality is actively used, eg by obtaining a passport, it may be assumed that free will is in effect. Consequently my guess is that if you stick to valid Chinese travel documents to travel to, in and from China there is no issue. The moment you use a foreign travel document without first giving up Chinese nationality you may run into trouble. IMHO not entirely unreasonable as Chinese law doesn't allow dual nationality.

 

 

 

Not recognizing dual nationality does not equal criminalizing dual nationality. Hence, I did not break the law as some people so eagerly put me on the spot for.

Maybe there is a definition issue going on here, but I never criminalized you. I tell you that you don't adhere to Chinese law as it does not allow dual citizenship. I never stated it as criminal. As said, maybe a definition issue, but in my book don't adhere to the law and breaking the law are the same thing, not sticking to the rules, whether it's a crime or a misdemeanor is a different matter.

[Lu]

Btw, for those who are wondering. I will be going back to China on a 10 year visa on my U.S passport.

Mibao, I'm curious: in other threads, I've read that people who were Chinese by birth had to bring their Chinese passport to the visa office in order to get a visa, I presume to have it cancelled. If they didn't have a passport, it was a big hassle. Did the visa office also ask you for your Chinese passport, and if so, how did you resolve this? I hope you can reply in the forums, it will be very useful for others in your position.

[roddy]

Not too hard to figure out, I think - find the right lawyer, pay the right fee, job done.

[陳德聰]

I would be extremely cautious about taking legal advice (because that's essentially what this is, a legal issue) from random strangers on the internet, so perhaps Lu, it would be best not to bother inquiring lest we end up with something shady that is so shady we're not comfortable disclosing it in public.

[baobao1314]

Hey Lu, yes I did turn in my passport. 

 

Well, since Mr.Chen put it in such nice terms, I will refrain from saying anything on a public forum. I don't want people to get misled by my "shady" advice. 

For those who are really serious about this matter, don't bother asking me because I mean, who am I, just a stranger on the internet. It's not like I went through this myself, or have any useful information or anything like that. Sorry I wouldn't be much help. 

 

Lawyer is probably your best option, you can also contact the Chinese consulate. I don't want to give out any "shady" information and god forbid, get anyone into legal trouble! 

[roddy]

"I would be extremely cautious about taking legal advice (because that's essentially what this is, a legal issue) from random strangers on the internet"

Goodbye to half the topics in the visa forum, then. Nobody's taking legal advice on the internet, they're gathering extra information, adding it in to what they already know, judging how credible it is, then making up their own minds.