象鼻子很长

[L-F-J]

 

 

進步 is a Noun in that sentence and admit or not, nothing can change that (with or without your lovely 得).

 

Can you share another example of a noun followed by the same 得 [de]?

[somethingfunny]

The ignorance of how misleading your statements are is astonishing.  Perhaps you could go somewhere else and sabotage someone else's attempt to learn a language?

 

To come into a grammar forum and make statements like you have is so negative and unhelpful.  Not only that but you did it concerning the character 得 which is a notoriously difficult grammar point that even native speakers have trouble with.  Anyone coming in here to find help about this topic is going to see what you have said and start coming up with all kinds of stuff:

 

"他进步的很快"

"他进步地很快"

"他走快"

"他讲好"

 

But they're all OK because daxu has said that it's just a character with no meaning. 

 

Please take your "差不多就可以了" attitude and go somewhere else.  Maybe I'm speaking personally but I'm aiming a little higher than mediocrity.

[L-F-J]

@somethingfunny

 

You speak for more than just yourself with that. If daxu went to an interview for a job to teach Chinese and explained 得 and other grammar points to the interviewers the same way he/she has here, they would end the interview immediately and never call him/her again... and probably be amazed such people exist and fancy themselves able to teach or even give advice.

 

That's essentially what has happened here. This person has joined a Chinese language forum with 0 understanding of how the language works to do just that, in a strongly opinionated way. It is indeed astonishing! 

 

If any beginners reading along have not figured it out yet, daxu can simply be ignored...

[daxu]

"他进步的很快", this is wrong as 的 is a connector, but doesn't work this way.

"他进步地很快"  this is wrong as 地 is a connector, but doesn't work this way.

"他走快"  again, missing connector

"他讲好" again,  missing connector.

 

Again, connector itself doesn't have any meaning, you need to understand how Chinese language really works and try to forget your bible once?

[daxu]

@L_F_L,

 

Just wondering is this the way you teach or learn Chinese?

 

If you teach Chinese this way, no wonder people feel it is so difficult to learn Chinese?

 

My mom and I wrote the first Chinese-Teaching textbook for Canada (that is like more than 10 or 20 years ago), the problem is that seems people like you only interested in some holy grammar bible, other than really teach the Chinese language? Do you get some financial gain by doing this way?

[li3wei1]

okay folks, let's just slip out quietly and let him talk to himself. nothing to see here . . .

[Kenny同志]

I was taught that often, if you don't use a 的, then the listener thinks you're referring to a 'special case' or 'special category". I can't remember the examples that I was given. But for instance, 红包 has a specific, 'special' meaning, different from 红的包。

 

I don’t think so. 鴨蛋 (n.+n.), 牛角 (n.+n.), 魚鰾 (n.+n.), 白紙 (adj.+n.) are all used in a general sense.

 

Does 象鼻子, with no 'pause', sound natural to you?

And would something like "马鼻子" sound less natural?

 

Both 象鼻子 and 馬鼻子 sound slightly unnatural—usually, the preferred variants of 象鼻子 are 象鼻, 象的鼻子, or 大象鼻子, but I should mention that 豬蹄子 and 马尾巴 are perfectly fine. The reason, I think, is that this is more of a convention than grammar issue.

 

Elephants are famous for their noses. So ... it's almost a 'special category', doesn't sound strange. But there's nothing special about horses' noses. So 马的鼻子 sounds much better than 马鼻子?

 

No, 象鼻子 and 马鼻子 sound equally natural/unnatural.

 

In which case 象鼻子, with no 'pause', might sometimes be better translated as "elephant noses" rather than "elephants' noses"?

 

 I am not sure but I think translating 象鼻子 as ‘elephant noses’ is a bad idea.

 

Edit: surely somewhere in China there is a local speciality of braised horse nose? In which case, 马鼻子 with no 的 would refer to the dish's name!

 

Yes. And we have a common dish called豬蹄子.

 

 

Also: 马鼻 sounds a bit rude. But I think the above is still true for 羊鼻子 vs 羊的鼻子 and so on.

 

馬鼻 may sound a bit formal—so I believe it’s more common in writing, but rude? No.

[mandel1luke]

 

1.    {noun + noun + predicate}:

象鼻子很长 -  Should it be considered as  ‘Elephants – nose – long   (‘Topic + Comment’  theory) , or  “Elephants` noses are long (a short version of象的鼻子很长)”, or  ‘In elephants – noses are long (象 being kind of 状语)’. 

 

Although 象鼻子很长 is a sentence natives would have no problem comprehending, more often heard are: 1) 象的鼻子很长 or 2) 象鼻很长 (more formal). It's a case of whether you prefer the more colloquial, 口语化 象的鼻子很长， or the more formal 象鼻很长 which is used in writing. 象鼻子 as a "bounded phrase" isn't heard very often. Like what Kenny says, "the reason, I think, is that this is more of a convention than grammar issue."