Chinese Novel Blogs

[habote]

I've been reading Dream of the Red Chamber recently in Chinese while listening to 蒋勋's podcast "细说红楼梦“. I really don't think I would have made it very far into the book if not for this podcast. The way he explains every detail of the book makes the whole reading experience much more valuable and interesting. Even having an English translation of the book side by side doesn't give you insight into the endless amount of detail like 蒋勋's podcast does. He has about three hours of content for EACH chapter of the first 80 chapters. Really an amazing resource. I have seen many members of the forum talk about wanting to read Dream of the Red Chamber, but it always seems like a great burden. It is, after all, a very dense book with far too many characters, written in complicated Chinese and interspersed with more poems than you can shake a stick at. Having the podcast to explain the text and relieve some of the pressure of trying to figure out everything by yourself is a huge motivation to keep reading. It's also fantastic for developing listening skills.

 

That got me thinking about English language resources for Dream of the Red Chamber or other Chinese novels. I haven't really looked a lot online, but I don't think there are many good resources outside of English language versions of the book and scholarly articles. While many Chinese language learners are interested in reading the classic Chinese novels, I don't think (or at least haven't found) many resources like 蒋勋's podcast that do a good job of exploring the text itself and helping readers continue reading without getting bogged down by difficult writing and complex story lines.

 

This is all to ask 万能的Chinese-Forums if you know of any good blogs/websites/apps that take a close reading approach to explaining Chinese novels or stories?

If not, is anyone aware of high quality blogs in English that explore longer Western literature in depth? I would like to compare and possible find some inspiration for creating a blog myself.

[gato]

Thanks for the recommendation. 蒋勋 is really pretty great.

[realmayo]

Check out the mammoth translation of Jin Ping Mei by David Tod Roy -- to call it heavily footnoted is an understatement, I think those footnotes should provide the close reading approach you're asking about. I've recently made a start on the first volume via Kindle.

 

From Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Tod_Roy

 

 

Roy's graduate seminar on the novel took two years to read through the entire 3,000 pages of the earliest edition. He and his students saw that the novel contained abundant but unidentified quotations from earlier works. Roy spent several years making an index for every line of poetry, proverbs, or drama in the text, filling more than 10,000 three-by-five file cards. He then set out to read all of of the works that were in print before the novel was compiled and this index allowed him to identify a great number of the quotations and allusions that earlier scholars had not known.[2]

The translation was warmly greeted. [5] Jonathan Spence, reviewing the first volume of the translation for the New York Review of Books in 1994, remarked on "the splendid energy with which David Tod Roy ... has translated this vast and remarkable novel". Roy's policy as a translator, Spence observed, was to “translate everything—even puns,” and to include all traditional “formulaic” material, such as proverbs, stock couplets, and such, and that it will be the first translation to render the whole novel into English. Roy has made a "major contribution to our overall understanding of the novel by so structuring every single page of his translation that the numerous levels of the narration are clearly differentiated" and has annotated the text with a precision, thoroughness, and passion for detail that makes even a veteran reader of monographs smile with a kind of quiet disbelief". His glosses and annotations combine "the quarter century he tells us he has worked on the novel with the labors of the centuries of Chinese commentators and exegetes who came before him—all of whom he seems to have read—and the dedicated researches and doctorates of his own accomplished students at the University of Chicago (whose contributions are fully acknowledged)".[1]

The scholar Perry Link reviewing the last volume to appear, also in the New York Review of Books, wrote that "Roy can point to a life’s work of enviable concreteness: 3,493 pages, five volumes, and 13.5 pounds, the world’s only translation of 'everything,' as he puts it, in a huge and heterogeneous novel that has crucial importance in Chinese literary tradition."[6]

[imron]

There was a thread a few years back about a podcast for the romance of the three kingdoms and a quick look shows that the podcast is still regularly updated.

 

The podcast itself is in English, but it's made by a native Chinese speaker whose aim is to make the story more accessible to western readers.

 

The above thread also has links to a 评书 version of three kingdoms as well as a transcript.

[habote]

@realmayo

Yes I actually have been reading David Tod Roy's translation of Jin Ping Mei as I read the Chinese version. His notes seem to be done as a catalog though, mostly offering insight into the origin of poems or phrases used by characters. His notes are quite different than Anthony Yu's notes on Journey to the West, which I really enjoyed and found to be very helpful in understanding the background of the story and bringing readers into the 西游记 universe. 

 

@imron

Thanks for the recommendation! I haven't seen that thread or podcast, but it looks very promising. 

 

I've been thinking I would like to do some kind of chapter by chapter guided reading or reading blog about 红楼梦. I'm just not sure what would be the most beneficial format. I want it to be something that helps us appreciate the beauty of the story without getting too frustrated with the difficult language and story. I am far from any kind of expert on 红楼梦, but I think it would be a good way to study together with anyone else interested. I know that when I read Journey to the West, it was sometimes very hard to force myself to make progress because it was difficult to understand the background of the story. I think 蒋勋 does a very job bringing in readers not necessarily looking for advanced study into the world of 红楼梦. He does a great job in explaining everything that makes the text itself a great story. That isn't to say it isn't a serious study of the book, but he doesn't get bogged down in historical details or guesswork about the author's intent or other kinds of sidetracks that other 红学 seems to take. He really sticks to the text itself and teases out the most interesting parts of the story. 

 

Not sure if anyone is interested in that kind of thing. 

[Luxi]

Thanks for the reference! I'd certainly be interested in that kind of thing, It'd be fantastic!

 

I have David Hawkes' translation but have not even started to read it yet - got the ebooks when they were going cheap, it is highly praised for readability, My first reading was Gladys Yang translation, which I found extremely stiff and dull, gave up half way the 4 volumes.

 

I think watching the TV series alongside would help a great deal - especially with the characters, and the settings are very beautiful. Looks like the newest version isn't available yet, but the 1987 version is, and there are sets in You Tube with English subtitles.

[realmayo]

I read the first half of the first volume of the Gladys Yang 红楼梦 translation before picking up the David Hawkes and carrying on from there: a very, very, very definite improvement; I really like that book, not sure if I'd be able to say the same if all I'd had was the Gladys Yang version.

[Zeppa]

I've read the Hawkes three times in English and I love it, but my Chinese is very weak. The introduction to the Hawkes translation was a help, though obviously short. I picked up a second-hand copy of Dore J. Levy, Ideal and Actual in the Story of the Stone, but haven't read much of it.

[Lu]

Gladys Yang & Yang Hsien-yi should be commended for the very large number of Chinese works they made accessible to a foreign audience, but when it comes to style they kill everything they translate. Usually if there is another translation available that is not theirs, that translation is more enjoyable. I also really enjoyed the Hawkes translation of the Honglou meng and found it not difficult at all, even with the large number of characters.

 

That said, a Dutch translation is to come out in the next few years (hurray!), and one of the translators told me that Hawkes took a lot of liberties.

[Luxi]

Searching around, I found a "Hongloumeng Book Club" on Facebook: 紅樓夢 Hónglóumèng QC discussion group (Dream of Red Mansions)

 

I don't know how active it is/has been (most posts I see are by the page owner) and, in any case, it's already quite far into the story, but there are a few useful looking references.

 

Funny thing is, although the group is for the book reading, it looks like they moved into the TV series at an early stage, the events seem to be referred to the series episodes rather than book chapters. I suspect that's what would happen with any group discussing the classical Chinese novels, even with well written English translations available.

[Luxi]

A bit more searching brought up many references, including:

 

An interesting, little known English translation of Hongloumeng by B.S.Bonsall, published online by the University of Honk Kong in 2004 --- together with a translation of the Records of the Warring States by the same author (these searches always produce pleasant surprises quite unrelated to the search topic)

 

And also a free course by the University of Minnesota, based on themes from the novel.

 

Dream of the Red Chamber: Afterlives is both a collection of exhibits and a course, inspired by the San Francisco Opera's production of the Dream of the Red Chamber, which premieres in September 2016.  It was devised in the context of a graduate seminar at the University of Minnesota in the spring of 2016; you will see student work at several points on the site.

This course is free and open to the public. You may begin it any time you wish, and you may proceed through it in any way you wish.

 

 

@habote, I almost wish you hadn't brought this topic up, I intended to concentrate on "Water Margin" for the next several months.

[habote]

@Luxi

I came across that translation the other day, but the awkward scanning and font make it hard to read more than a few lines without getting a headache. 

The University of Michigan site seems to have to have some good information. I wish I could go see their performance! 

 

Sorry to drag you into this! I have really been impressed with the podcast, and I want to come up with a good way of translating some of it and having people discuss it. There is so much good information there that I don't think is very accessible in English.