3rd most Intensive Program (Nxt to IUP - ICLP)

[Harvey]

ICLP - http://ccms.ntu.edu.tw/~iclp/

IUP - http://ieas.berkeley.edu/iup/

From what I have read on the forums, I gather than ICLP and IUP are by far the most intensive Mandarin language programs in China and Taiwain. Is this true? They both seem to be great for someone who really wants to go hardcore with the language.

That said, they both also do not teach Chinese to beginners. They require 1-2 years of University level language experience. I don't have that!

Other than these two stellar schools, what is the next best thing for intensive - serious about learning the language Chinese programs in China?

I say in China because I believe there are other very intensive programs even back in the US and other countries, that may be better than schools in China in terms of instruction, but I would really rather be learning in the target country if possible.

Thanks for any advice!

[allenedgar]

I am also a beginner and interested in an intensive program in China. When I contacted IUP they said I didn't have enough language skills to apply and they recommended the Taipei Language Institute (located in Taiwan and China) as a primer for IUP. Based on that recommendation and hearing generally good things about TLI, I am starting individual lessons there in September. I'll have a fuller report after I start. For now I'll say they helped me get a visa (still in process), which I think is rare for a private language school. They've been very responsive over email and there seems to be less bureaucracy than one would encounter at a public school.

[lylestyle]

I would recommend either the BLCU intensive program(30 hrs/week), or the BNU program. From what I've heard from other classmates who have gone to BNU, the instruction is very good and you tend to learn alot from the program. I had classmates who did the Beida program, and they all said they thought the BNU program was much better and they learned more. Anyway, it all comes down to how much self-motivation you have. Good luck!

[Jive Turkey]

For beginners on the mainland, places like BLCU or BNU would be a good bet. There are plenty of other universities offering similar programs in other cities if you want to get out of Beijing. One advantage to studying at a place other than BLCU is that you wouldn't be on a campus full of foreigners.

The mainland programs usually have pretty big class sizes. If you are someone who needs to learn in a small class, then you may want to consider Taiwan. There are a few university programs there that offer nothing but classes of no more than about 10 students. In my experience with people who've learned in Taiwan, they often attain a higher level of accuracy and fluency than students who started in big classes like at BLCU. A student in Taiwan will generally get more attention as far as speech correction is concerned. However, mainland taught students sometimes seem to have a better command of vocabulary than students who've done a similar amount of time in Taiwan. I think this is probably because most Taiwan programs are pretty heavy on audiolingualism, whereas mainland programs might employ a slightly broader range of techniques. Keep in mind, though, that many of these mainland taught students who had a broader vocabulary who I've met had pretty poor pronunciation. It seemed that they just didn't get enough attention in class to build a good foundation in the sound system of the language.

Programs to consider in Taiwan would be National Taiwan Normal University and Donghai University in Taichung. I'm sure there are 4 or 5 others that offer similar programs to these two. As for TLI, I think it can be hit or miss. You'll have to be pretty motivated to get want you want from an experience there.

[Harvey]

One advantage to studying at a place other than BLCU is that you wouldn't be on a campus full of foreigners.

This is Key for me.

If you are someone who needs to learn in a small class, then you may want to consider Taiwan.

But the 2008 Olympics man! Now is the time to be in China.

I wonder if I could do a year in Taiwain, and then get a good enough start to join IUP in Beijing... and get there in time for the Olympic fever...

From what I have learned so far I think pronounciation is something I want to be extremely careful of with Chinese, so a small class is something I would enjoy.

I really do want to learn about China as well, not only language... but I'll put Taiwan schools on my list of things to look at as well. I'll check over at http://www.forumosa.com/ for details.

[fenlan]

I know of several courses in China for people who already have at least one year of Chinese. I think most of those below claim to be intensive, including some with "no speaking English" rules. the bad news is that they are all priced in the same range - in line with what US students expect to pay, not in line with costs in China. I think US universities are quite culpable in not having driven better deals for their students - on the assumption that plentiful scholariships and loans will cover these costs. They have artificially driven up the price. Any takers for $20K a year? $30K? $40K?

1. Central University for Nationalities, Beijing, intensive Chinese. Organised through Oregan University. Fees: $5,330 for the autumn semester, $7,130 for winter/spring semester, ie $12,440 for tuition and accommodation inclusive. Must have one year's Chinese. (See http://www.ous.edu/international/website/chinalinkprogrampage/chinaprogram.html)

2. Inter-University Programme at Tsinghua, organised with Berkeley University. Must have 2 year's Chinese. Fees for 32 week academic year: $13,000 tuition only. (see http://ieas.berkeley.edu/iup/)

3. Council on International Educational Exchange, CIEE programme, Peking University. Must have one year's Chinese. Fees for academic year: $16,250, incl tuition and accommodation. (See http://www.ciee.org/program_search/program_detail.aspx?page=5&sec=0&program_id=48&type=part)

4. CIEE programme, Nanjing University. Must have one year's Chinese. Fees for academic year: $16,000 incl tuition and accommodation ( See http://www.ciee.org/program_search/program_detail.aspx?program_id=50&type=part)

5. CET Chinese Intensive Language Programme, Harbin. Must have 2 year's Chinese. Fees: spring and autumn semesters $8,690 each, so total would be $17,380, for accommodation and tuition. (See http://www.cetacademicprograms.com/www/docs/172)

6. CET Programme, Beijing - same price as above.

7. CIEE, East China Normal University, Shanghai. Similar to above CIEE courses, but $17,750 a year incl accommodation (See http://www.ciee.org/program_search/program_detail.aspx?program_id=54&type=part)

8. SIT Yunnan, Kunming. One year of Chinese required. $13,707 incl tuition and accommodation. http://www.sit.edu/studyabroad/asia/chinayun.html

[venture160]

hey I am currently in CET's Harbin program for the summer and fall semester, and I love it, the classes are very small, never over 5, and you have a custom designed class that is just you and a professor, any topic you want. There is also a language pledge, which actuallly just about no one has broken, but that all depends on the students. Also, Harbin is a great city with absolutely no foreigners if you don't count the damn russians up here. Yea this place is expensive, but classes are tough and intense, and I have found myself learning a ton. IF you have not studied at least two years of Mandarin, this program is NOT for you, you will find it extremely difficult and will not be able to keep up, for example a student here with less than great CHiense has to spend 6 hours everday doing homework while everyone else can get by on 2-5 hours. Hit me up if you have any more questions.

[gato]

Any takers for $20K a year? $30K? $40K?

These tuition rates are much higher than what I would expect for China. How much of this money is staying in China, as opposed to going back to their American sponsors? Maybe one can try to deal with a Chinese school directly and cut out the middleman.

[fenlan]

Excessive Quoting Removed

Venture160, I wonder how to compare the IUP and the CET Harbin programmes. Do CET pupils, for example, take the HSK at the end? That might enable some kind of scientific comparison. Isn't the CET programme the one where you have to share a room with a Chinese pupil? That's fine, but some of us like our own rooms! Can you give any other details?

[roddy]

I think the only thing you would acheive by cutting a deal with the Chinese partner is getting yourself into the standard, 20+ students to a class Chinese language program. These 'premium' programs are pretty closely managed by the foreign partner, and I'd imagine they have control over materials, teachers, pedagogy, etc, and usually have their own staff on site. The chances of being able to sneak into a class of 5 at half-price are pretty slim.

[fenlan]

Roddy, do you think that someone who already has intermediate Chinese would get up to the same level as an IUP student by doing 2 years at BNU? I am thinking, if time was not an issue, and I could do two years at BNU instead of one at IUP, I woudl save money and have some time for other things.

[roddy]

Bearing in mind that I haven't studied at either, and this question should really be answered by someone that has studied at at least one (in fact I've never studied Chinese formally, and it shows)

I think you could, but it would require more discipline. The books the intensive courses use aren't magic tomes, you'll be able to get hold of them yourself. The teachers aren't miracle workers, you'll be able to find tutors who can do the same kind of work with you. The discipline of homework / no-English rules is something you can impose on yourself.

The question is - will you?

For a lot of people the environment, and the awareness of having spent a lot of money will make a lot of difference to the effort they put in. Others can motivate themselves to the same levels of comittment.

Roddy

[venture160]

hey to all of your questions about CET Harbin, no we don't take the HSK at the end like IUP, but Its just about on the same par with the amount of workload and rigor. Also, the classes are incredibly small, and you have a 24 hour language pledge, that while living with a Chinese roommate is pretty easy to maintain. Whats also nice about the CET program is that you have one class that you design yourself, (granted its in Chinese) you can study whatever you want from Chinese International copyright law to the current trends in pop music, (there is a kid right now studying that)But, like the rest of the programs, its only good if you study your ass off and reap the benefits from paying alot of money for alot of premiums, and there are alot, this program is run EXTREMELY smooth, they have a person here (an american) who does nothing but manages the programs, everday oversees class, and if something isn't going well, they sure as hell fix it, for example about 2 weeks into one class, a professor wasn't working out, we stated our opinion, and the next day we had a new (and awesome) professor. Basicly, you pay alot of money, and you get alot.

[Harvey]

You've caught my interest with the CET Harbin talk.

Sounds good! http://cet.truepresence.com/www/docs/346

This roommate thing, where do these roommates come from? How do they keep the arrangement from becoming more of an English education at home for the Chinese roommate?

Open to qualified students who have had a minimum of two years of college-level Chinese or the equivalent, the CET Chinese Language Program in Harbin is designed specifically for high intermediate and advanced students, and gives them the challenge and flexibility they need in language learning.

Hey. That's not cool. What do I have to do to prove that I have gained 2nd year college level Chinese by myself? I just tossed an email to CET, we'll see what they say.

Also, I'm a little confused. What is the difference between CET and HET?

[venture160]

hmm well the chinese classes here are pretty hard, if you are not a second year listening, speaking, and reading and writing, you are going to have HARD time. But I think you could maybe take the HSK or some sort of standardized chinese test to prove what your skills are, there are also a number of professional testing agencies. Unless you have already applied, I am pretty sure the date has passed for the fall semester, (actually I will be there next semester as well)

As for the roommates, they are all HIT undergraduate students, that are HANDPICKED by the CET staff through the course of 2 or 3 interview sessions, they are then matched accordingly to an American student that the CET staff thinks is appropriate. While a good number of the CET chinese roommates do study english, as almost every student in the world does, it is made very clear that it is off limits to turn this into a study oppurtunity for the Chinese, although they do gain an insight into american culture, in chinese nonetheless. It is also up to you of course, if you want you could teach your roommate english and get away with it, but of course, if you wanted to. After two months, I have barely spoken any english with any of the Chinese roommates, and if i Have, it was my decision to clarify a statement in an english movie we were watching with Chinese subtitles so they could understand what was going on. It really is no problem at all, plus if you have a problem with anything, be it a classmate, a teacher etc, there are CET staff present at the HIT campus staff that are extremely friendly, and easily approachable as one is our RA, that immediately takes care of any situation that arises ( I guess that is what happens when you pay a huge chunk of money to study abroad!)

if you have any more questions feel free to ask, although I would direct your questions to the CET office as well, in my experience they have been very friendly.

[Harvey]

matched accordingly to an American student

Are all students of CET American? No way right?

[venture160]

I'd say most students are american, this summer semester we have 18, one of which is Korean, but that student attends an American University, if I am not mistaken next semester there are 14 or so students, one is from Japan. I don't know the historical statistics, so you would have to ask CET.

[Harvey]

Thanks for the info venture. Hrm, I was hoping to be in a more diverse enviroment as far as classmates go... but i guess the quality of the course is more important than that anyway.

Intersting! I'll consider Harbin as one of my options. Soon I'll have to start narrowing this down a bit more...

[snarfer]

What textbooks does this program use? Are they available for sale elsewhere?

[MickeyKratz]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Chinese_Language_Program ICLP does offer beginner's classes. ICLP has a lot of advantages over IUP including uncensored internet (this means you can read stuff anywhere in the world, including stuff in Taiwan and China), extensive use of digital audio (every book), and a university (National Taiwan University) closer in standard to American universities, where you can sit in on classes when you get good enough. You can also easily learn Classical Chinese (which helps you understand newspapers and formal works) and Taiwanese (which is either fun or, from what I hear, actually also helps you understand formal written Chinese because it's closer to Middle Chinese). Besides that though, I think from just a textbook--homework perspective, the two schools are approximately the same.