Apollys Posted December 31, 2016 at 03:52 AM Report Share Posted December 31, 2016 at 03:52 AM I am wondering if anyone can break down the grammar of this sentence for me. Specifically, I'm wondering what purpose the 点 is serving (in my mind it seems to be conflicting with the 多, so I'm guessing it serves more of a grammatical than semantic purpose). 年轻的时候多看点好书是件好事。 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiMo Posted January 2, 2017 at 10:01 PM Report Share Posted January 2, 2017 at 10:01 PM I don't think it conflicts. Consider the same kind of sentiment in English. "Eat a bit more rice." "Have a little more compassion." "Do something more if only a little bit" is quite a normal thing to express in my opinion. You're overthinking it...I think NB. However, I defer to others when it come's to what is properly grammatical and what is not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollys Posted January 2, 2017 at 11:24 PM Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2017 at 11:24 PM I see what you're thinking, but this is not the translation I have for it (I have also asked multiple native speakers to translate it, they all agreed as well, although none of them had very strong English). The given translation was that it means reading *many* good books is a good thing, not reading *a few more* good books. Perhaps your reading is correct though, and the translations I have come across are inaccurate due to native Chinese speakers' lack of distinction between more and many (my girlfriend says "more" all the time when she means many or much, it really confused me for a while...). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddyf Posted January 3, 2017 at 12:20 AM Report Share Posted January 3, 2017 at 12:20 AM Yes, since "more" and "many" are both 多, I wouldn't be surprised if Chinese speakers with weak English got them mixed up. I also think the example has more of a "more" sense to it than just "many". Maybe the distinction isn't that important. But "more" implies that the speaker thinks that young people don't read enough books, whereas "many" doesn't carry that implication. And I do think the sentence has that implication. So "more" seems like a better translation. Also, although the 点 directly translates as "a bit" I think it's mostly something that softens the tone. Or maybe you can think of it as a fixed pattern. It's kind of like the "some" in "some more". So 多+点 is actually closer to "some more" than "a bit more". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollys Posted January 3, 2017 at 12:24 AM Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2017 at 12:24 AM Okay, then I will switch the translation of that sentence in my mind to mean "more" - now it makes sense! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiMo Posted January 3, 2017 at 12:35 AM Report Share Posted January 3, 2017 at 12:35 AM Yeah, I think in this case there's been a mistranslation for you. Despite what I said earlier about my grasp of grammar, I'm fairly certain that if 多 precedes the verb that means that it is modifying that verb and not the stuff after it. To express reading many books I would say: 年轻的时候看很多好书是件好事。 One of the most common places to here this structure, 多+verb, is when people are eating and one person wants to show care for another/suck up to a superior, and they offer them more food or just encourage them to eat more. They will say 多吃 (vegetables or meat or whatever). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollys Posted January 3, 2017 at 12:40 AM Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2017 at 12:40 AM And I also notice you threw in a 很 before the 多 in that case, which is a pattern I've seen before. So I'm curious (since you seem to be implying this) if you think in general 多 as an adverb means "more" while as an adjective in means "many"? Or is it possible to also mean "much" as an adverb and "more" as an adjective? Edit: just remembered a sentence I've come across where 多 is an adverb modifying an adjective meaning much. 他跑得能有多快就有多快。 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddyf Posted January 3, 2017 at 12:58 AM Report Share Posted January 3, 2017 at 12:58 AM 多 can be used as a question word to mean "how much". Additionally, in Chinese there is a grammar pattern where a question word is used twice in a sentence to mean "whatever" or "whoever" or "however much". Your sentence is just an example of this pattern in action. 多 can mean "more" as an adjective when you use it with comparative structures: 在我的学校，女学生比男学生多. Also it can mean "much" when modifying verbs if you use certain complement structures: 他吃得很多. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
889 Posted January 3, 2017 at 03:47 AM Report Share Posted January 3, 2017 at 03:47 AM Of course it depends on context, but I suspect it really does mean "read more books" with 點 in there as a way of softening up the statement, and not meant to be taken literally. Just as in English: "Could you slow down just a bit?" often means "Slow down!" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abcdefg Posted January 3, 2017 at 11:41 AM Report Share Posted January 3, 2017 at 11:41 AM Agree with 889. I think it has a lot to do with the polite Chinese phrasing of suggestions to make sure they don't come out sounding like commands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
陳德聰 Posted January 3, 2017 at 07:52 PM Report Share Posted January 3, 2017 at 07:52 PM Note that 多 and 少 both operate this way: 多穿點衣服 wear more clothes 少喝點冰水 drink less cold water You may notice that I have a cold. Also 點 is optional. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abcdefg Posted January 4, 2017 at 12:29 AM Report Share Posted January 4, 2017 at 12:29 AM I recently noticed an on-line Twitter post which is relevant: "As your new Commander-in-Chief, I, Donald Trump order all you ignorant blue-collar hillbilly peasants to wear more clothes when it's cold." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollys Posted January 4, 2017 at 12:36 AM Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2017 at 12:36 AM Oh great, so you're saying if I speak Mandarin I'm going to sound like Donald Trump. Time to abandon ship! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abcdefg Posted January 4, 2017 at 01:30 AM Report Share Posted January 4, 2017 at 01:30 AM No, but if you don't "soften" it you will. See post #9 and 10, above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Tsui44 Posted February 7, 2017 at 05:46 AM Report Share Posted February 7, 2017 at 05:46 AM 年轻的时候多看点好书是件好事。 点 here means quantity. Read many quantities of books when young is a good thing. Example: 一点点 a few qantity the two 点 with a different meaning. the former 点 means few, the rear one mean quantity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollys Posted February 7, 2017 at 08:25 PM Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2017 at 08:25 PM Hmmm, very interesting explanation. Could 点 be replaced with 本? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
陳德聰 Posted February 7, 2017 at 08:32 PM Report Share Posted February 7, 2017 at 08:32 PM 4 minutes ago, Apollys said: Could 点 be replaced with 本? No, and honestly I think the suggestion that 一點點 is not just reduplication is also simply incorrect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lips Posted February 8, 2017 at 01:53 AM Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 at 01:53 AM I agree, "一点点”, as in "a little bit", is a reduplication, at least that's my understanding all my life. 一本本 can be used to mean (somewhat) “numerous", as in "房间里的一本本书我都没看”. 一点点 can also be used as "a little bit at a time", like in "把糖一点点拿出来". In this case it's not a reduplication as you don't say ""把糖一点拿出来". In fact, it's more like an abbreviation of "一点一点“。 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Tsui44 Posted February 8, 2017 at 06:34 AM Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 at 06:34 AM 2 hours ago, lips said: like in "把糖一点点拿出来". It wired to say "把糖一点点拿出来", you can say "把糖一点一点拿出来" or "把糖一粒粒拿出来" or "把糖一粒一粒拿出来" or "把一点点糖拿出来" or "拿一点点糖出来" or "拿一点糖出来" 一本本 can be an abbreviation of 一本一本, but 一点点 is different. It's not an abbreviation at most of the time. 一点点钱 means a few quantity of money. you can not say "一点一点钱", since 点 is not the unit of money. from 百度汉语：4.量词，用于小的或少的：两三～雨。几～泪水。 4.quantifier, used for few or small quantities or amount. (Since it's a quantifier, you do not mix it with few, a little as a adj. you can take it as unknown" quantity of" or "amount of" but the quantity or amount tend to be small or few) 点 has no meaning of "little" itself. 一点 is a word that means a little. 一点点衣服 the second "点" is the same with the "点" in "多穿点衣服" . It means "quantity of". 8 hours ago, 陳德聰 said: honestly I think the suggestion that 一點點 is not just reduplication is also simply incorrect. You should see that "一本" have different meaning with "一本本", but "一点" in most of the case is the same with "一点点". On 2017/1/4 at 3:52 AM, 陳德聰 said: Note that 多 and 少 both operate this way: 多穿點衣服 wear more clothes 少喝點冰水 drink less cold water You may notice that I have a cold. Also 點 is optional. yeah, 多穿衣服，少喝冰水 is also OK. You can see that "很多个人" "很多人" If you see 点 as "quantity of", you can understand why 点 sometimes is optional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
陳德聰 Posted February 8, 2017 at 03:26 PM Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 at 03:26 PM I suspect there is an element of language barrier complicating the explanation, but I think the main takeaway should be that 一點 and 一點點 are the same thing, but the reduplication of the 點 just makes 一點點 less than 一點. 給我一點時間 give me a little time (a little time) 給我一點點時間 give me a little time (an even littler time) Both of which are not the same meaning as is employed in 多看點書, because that 點 is effectively a -er. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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