Saciel Posted March 17, 2017 at 01:58 AM Report Share Posted March 17, 2017 at 01:58 AM Dear Community, at the end of my translation work I would like to check some still fuzzy sentences and expressions. I appreciate any help I can get. A publication is still years away but a streamlined translation will be ready to read in a public setting, so anyone who contributes to solving these issues and wants his or her name attached to it in an acknowledgment or reference can contact me with the name they want to see in print. Some context: Lý Thường Kiệt (李常傑; 1019–1105) was a Vietnamese superhero, he started out as a private servant to the emperor, became a general, and then he became basically anything the Lý-Dynasty had to offer. This is a stele about the founding for the Linh Xứng-Templr of Ngưỡng Sơn, it's not so much biographical as it is structured like the memorial stele of an eminent monk, with a lot of Buddhist ideology and landscape descriptions. Here are the problems (marked bold), some things might sound off in English as I translate into German and English is my second language: 1) This is from the Buddhist introduction, front side (Vorderseite) column 3-5: 聖人適時而通乎萬變.萬者壹之散[1]。壹乃萬之宗。至於賢智間出。軌範迭興. 聚其散以歸宗。抱於壹以統萬。立像相而示有所統。 崇塔廟而令有所歸。竭心力以經營,捨珎[1]玩而不恡[1]。故道設金繩之界檐施珠網之珎[2]。雖窮極於莊嚴[3]而不以為奢侈者。蓋[4]在於求壹真耳[5]。非徒欲耀［心］ 目[6]而誇壯麗也.自佛教以來。逮今二千餘載。 [1] 吝 [2] 珍 [3] Kalpa [4] ~五蓋 wu ge, the five moral hindrances .[6] Xinmu Mind and eye cause emotions and are therefore negative in Buddhism The sages pass through the ten thousand transformations, the ten thousand are the ones who scatter the One. The One is therefore the patriarch of the ten thousand. As to the virtuous ones, if among them wisdom is achieved, rules (?!) will flourish again and again. They collect the scattered to return to their schools/groups. They keep to the One to unify the ten thousand. The construction of icons and images presents that which was been united. The cherished pagodas and temples offer a place to return to. Mental and physical powers are exhausted to keep them (the temples). ==> The tiresome struggle for it is not abandonin riches with not few joy??? At the borders of the realm with ways marked by golden ropes (= pure land), the treasure of the pearl net (Indra's) was placed. Even the most struggling/poorest? of the kalpa do not belief into the wasteful. The passions lie in the search of the one Truth, that's all! ==> There are no adepts whose desire for the glorious mind and eye are ...?? . From the beginning of Buddhism it survived until today for two thousand years and thatway the worship multiplied. -- After the Buddhist introduction the author (a Buddhist monk) introduces Ly Thuong Kiet he's an eunuch who managed quickly to rise into high offices and successfully fought the Champa multiple times. From here on it's talking about the places conquered during those struggles, so former Cham areas became occupied by the Viet. 2) column 16-18: This is talking about his spiritual deeds: 雖身拘俗諦。而心［］乘,蓋 上與母后宗尚浮圖之教。公遵承 二聖幑旨。可扶持大器焉。公因治隙之暇。感 太后師［崇］ 信長老•忽從京師適來此郡.旁行教化導諸異俗而懲惡懷柔。 譬以壹雨所潤三草.孰不忻忻然[1] [1] Particle of sudden change ... even if one keeps to the wordly truth, the mind will change towards the Buddhist conviction, and that way it shows that the emperor and the empress dowager kept honoring the teachings of the Buddha. Ly Thuong Kiet (his lordship) followed the conviction, on behalf of an imperial edict there were two sacred convents to be held and capable persons (monks) to be supported. ==> Since there wasn't much to do at governing, the lord had some leisure time... on the request of empress dowager the monk Sùng Tín came there (Quang Binh), he illuminated and guided all unusual customs (of the local Cham population), destroyed evil and converted (people). As an ideal he wetted everything (the three kinds of plants) with just one rainfall and whoever was unhappy became happy. 3a) backside (Rückseite) column 32-34 肆其穀旦,落成啓席, 頂之流, 緇衣之士,雲集[禪] 扃,咸大和會,撤捨難獲珎貨。誕設齋饈.披宣無上靈詮。警告合識。 [1] reign era (after relating a story about an earlier shrine that had been burned down by locals)... On the fourth there was an auspicious founding day, at the end of the construction project there was a banquet, at the head of the table those black-clothed scholars (Buddhit monks) met, (the people) swarmed towards the temple gates, everyone came to the convention of great harmoney, they ==> abandoned themselves to get rid of the direness to acquire treasures ? More and more took part in fasting rituals. It was publicly announced that there wouldn't be a ==> more effective commentary, that warning was written down completely. 3b) this one of the hardest problems: 我妙性婆姨李氏舅公之的姪歧.[夷]美姿,英瑶淑質適崇真處士諱文帝。配成伉儷。契合松蘿。誕長儒文[ ]。字彭祖，從釋男壹曰圎覺師[法智]。 二曰明悟師法思。神武[1]初奉詔除其姓名.不係公典。闢莊於此而主持焉。乃於山之東向。別置聖恩寺。 There was the lady Ngã Diệu Tính*, a niece of [insertion: the mother-side's uncle] of the Lý-family, she was a foreign beauty. Full of exquisite, worthy, warm and virtuous character. In appropriate manner she understood to keep up the taboo [insertion: emperor Vân] and ==> when the mixture was right she was married to (??? the emperor?). ==> he (?) became more Confucian ?? (there is an insertion but I can't identify the second character). A mister named Tổ Bành was known as monk Viên Giác [Pháp Trí] as well as monk Minh Ngộ [Pháp Ân]. At the beginning of Thần Vũ there was an imperial decree received to eliminate his name. ==> that didn't suit Ly Thuong Kiets ideology, he opened his villa and supported him (the monk?) and that's how, in eastern direction of the mountain, the Thánh Ân temple was founded. * that's what the viet read, can 我 be a last name?? 4) colums 36-39 中儼紫磨金容,并輔翊菩薩之粹儀•凡斗柄四周天,肇茲勝事畢矣. 於戲!且生蓄我者莫大乎君父. 故能敬之。引翼我者莫尚乎福惠。庶在信之,以此純禧。祝茲 鴻運。曦圖延逺。國胤綿昌。餘益親緣， 倍增戠[1]穀.而公乃謂於予曰.興功積累，寶界既完。而不銘紀之。即後昆無所徇迹。乃求文昭述。敘其 [1] or戢 所作。俾人物遷移。淑聲永播。予適受知門下.自忖庸魯。固辭弗允。敢揭淸芬. 雋於翠琰[1] [1] epithet for a stone stele Its (the temple) center wa majestic, polished violet full of gold and supported by the pure rites of the Bodhisattvas. ==> Whenever the Big Dipper (Ursus Major ?!) at the beginning ... the whole sky, the good thing will be completed! Oh! Even more our most greatest ruler will attend? (I have NO clue who "我者" is, is it "our" or does it refer to that maybe-lady above?) ==> Because of that one can respect him. Out of this cause it's me (?!) who couldn't be happier. The common people trust him, it's pure joy. They desire .... great happiness, in daylight they search to hinder the continous flourishing of the descendants of foreign/distant countries (!?) The harvested corn was multiplied, the lord said thus: "I wish for the meritious deeds to multiply, the pure land has been completelyreached and nothing was held on to, that would cause memory. Even if afterwards the descendants did not follow their footsteps, they look for cultural understanding to feel close toand which tells them where their place is. This causes people to migrate. The warm, virtuous tone will continue spreading forever, this is honored appropiately by the wise, ==> they wonder if Lu (?) does step back or if that won't be allowed. Brave presents itself a clear smell (?)." 5) column 43: a praise of the lord Ly Thuong Kiet and other wise men, taken from the actual founding stele from the temple always in quarter sentences 山之峻兮聳晴空。 賢宰洽兮敞厥功。 絶頂巍兮殿塔崇。 仄金嚴兮寶界雄。 The height of the mountains, oh! throning over clear emptiness The virtuous rule according to them, oh! and spread their virtuous deeds. They vanish on their tip, oh! the temple halls and highly venerated pagoda, .... ??? oh, and will have great influence in the pure land. (I have no idea). 6) this one is from the signature of the stele: 天符睿武七年[1]丙午三月初三日齋慶訖。 立石. 秘書省校書郎管勾御府財貨充清化郡通判李 允茲 書并[篆]額 Heavenly Sign of Foresighted War, seventh year (= 1126), 43. year (?), third month, third day, finalization of the stele is celebrated with fasting. Errection of the stele the province secretary of the archive bureau ??? (Câu imperial government seat? where is my verb?), wealth satisfied the Thanh Hóa region's magistrate Lý (which one?). This was granted. Further they (?) wrote the seal script header (of the stele). 7) the last one The stele ends with an enumeration of the many, many titles of Ly Thuong Kiet and ends thus: 越國公[1],食邑一万[2]戶食實封四千戶李 常傑 啓建. 僧惠統[常忠]法閑 刊• Duke of Viet, He who feeds 10.000 housholds (= Marquis), The one invested and cherishing his fiefdom of 4000 households - Ly Thuong Kiet. Who founded (this temple). The monk Huệ thống [Thường Trung] ..... did what? I guess 法閑 is a Buddhist term, but I haven't found it in any way that would help me understand its meaning. how do you translate 刊? "Publication ready"? thank you for anyone who can check my translations or offer valuable tipps and insights. The whole stele has far over 1700 characters and is really under-researched. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinKenDo Posted March 17, 2017 at 02:05 PM Report Share Posted March 17, 2017 at 02:05 PM Sorry this is way beyond my Chinese level, but I'm just curious if you have an interest on Vietnam specifically, and if you have any experience with or interest in chu Han and/or chu Nom. I'm really interested in this area. If this is too off topic but you are interested in the area we could PM if it's preferred. I don;t have anything specific too say. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lips Posted March 18, 2017 at 02:33 AM Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 at 02:33 AM 雖窮極於莊嚴 IMHO 窮極 here means "extreme" or "utmost", like in 窮奢極侈. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Tsui44 Posted March 18, 2017 at 04:08 AM Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 at 04:08 AM On 2017/3/17 at 9:58 AM, Saciel said: 聖人適時而通乎萬變.萬者壹之散[1]。壹乃萬之宗。 萬 you'd better translate it as "all" instead of "ten thousand". On 2017/3/17 at 9:58 AM, Saciel said: 至於賢智間出。軌範迭興. 間出 is the same meaning with 迭興, which is "showing up one after one". So as to the virtuous and intelligent people showing up alternatively, rules and models springing up alternatively. On 2017/3/17 at 9:58 AM, Saciel said: 聚其散以歸宗 宗 root or source or basic. On 2017/3/17 at 9:58 AM, Saciel said: 立像相而示有所統。 崇塔廟而令有所歸。 Build icons and images to show that there are rules, worship pagodas and temples to make people have a sense of belonging. On 2017/3/17 at 9:58 AM, Saciel said: 竭心力以經營,捨珎[1]玩而不恡 珍玩 means "treasures" Spare no efforts to do that(build..worship..), give away treasures without sparing. On 2017/3/17 at 9:58 AM, Saciel said: 故道設金繩之界檐施珠網之珎[2] So, lay the golden string as borders of the road, use pears as precious decorations of the eaves. On 2017/3/17 at 9:58 AM, Saciel said: 雖窮極於莊嚴[3]而不以為奢侈者 Even though it is utmost solemn but no one thinks that it is extravagant. Have to have lunch now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Tsui44 Posted March 18, 2017 at 07:33 AM Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 at 07:33 AM On 2017/3/17 at 9:58 AM, Saciel said: 蓋[4]在於求壹真耳[5]。非徒欲耀［心］ 目[6]而誇壯麗也 蓋－〉盖：因为 because of Because it is for seeking the one principle, not only for shining one's heart and eyes to boast about it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saciel Posted March 19, 2017 at 03:41 PM Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2017 at 03:41 PM Thank you a lot that really helped well sorry I cant write anything right now bc of a bug.txt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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