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student444

 Next steps after learning Hesigs' 3000  simplified chinese characters

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student444

 

I have learned the 3,000 simplified chinese characters of Hesig presents in his 2 books using the "Marilyn Metrhod".  I have time to study during the day but I do not have access to the internet, smart phone, or chinese speaking person during my study times.  

I am looking for recommendations for the next step.  Along with reading a few vocabulary books, I have read a few graded readers and they help alot but I find them lacking in some areas.  Specifically in the amount of compound words contained in them.

I am thinking that the next step is for me to recognize and memorize the vast number of compound words but I haven't been able to locate a list?  (I could locate an anki list and convert it to pdf and print it out)

However, I am really looking for the experience of others on this forum and what has worked for them to learn simplified chinese after they have finished the Hesig books.

Thank you!

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Yadang
12 hours ago, student444 said:

I find them lacking in some areas.  Specifically in the amount of compound words contained in them.

I am thinking that the next step is for me to recognize and memorize the vast number of compound words

 

If you want compounds, the readers by DeFrancis are a good bet. Unfortunately in your case, they are all in traditional. But you could just learn the traditional as you go. Throughout the three readers (beginning, intermediate and advanced), 1200 characters and 7000 compounds are introduced, along with over 600,000 characters of running text. So you probably know all of the simplified characters and would have to work a bit to know the traditional counterparts, while all the while learning a ton of compounds.

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character

"A Chinese Character A Day" practice pad lists several compounds for each day's character.

 

There are plenty of graded readers to choose from; perhaps one series or another will spark your interest.

 

Maybe if you posted about why you are learning Chinese it would help people offer more specific suggestions.

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Shelley

I would recommend using a textbook course. You can buy the paperback version of New Practical Chinese Reader (NPCR) this is in simplified although there is a traditional version if you should want to go down that route.

 

The reason I suggest a textbook is because there is more to learning chinese than just learning list of words (compound characters as you call them) You need to study grammar, pronunciation and you need to practise listening and writing. I believe learning to write is one of the best ways to memorise characters. For this you could use Hanzi Grids, you can print out the work sheets and use them without a computer. Have a look here https://www.hanzigrids.com/

 

NPCR comes with a CD so you could listen to it just with a CD player that plays mp3s.

 

I think you need to broaden you study from just lists to a comprehensive course.

 

In my blog (below) I have explained more about the resources and methods i use to study.

 

As @character says a bit more detail about your level, expectations and why would be helpful.

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trevorld

If you start learning words (i.e. compounds) I highly recommend filtering out low frequency words either by only learning words you've seen multiple times in a natural context (best) and/or by consulting a frequency list.  Learning low-frequency compounds even when they seems easy and you know the component characters isn't a good use of your time.  You'll rarely have an opportunity to recognize them and if you produce them instead of a higher frequency alternative native speakers will often give you a weird look and tell you nobody uses that word (and you should use that higher frequency alternative instead).

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imron
3 hours ago, trevorld said:

I highly recommend filtering out low frequency words either by only learning words you've seen multiple times in a natural context (best) and/or by consulting a frequency list

I highly recommend this also, and highly recommend using Chinese Text Analyser   (which I made) to find high frequency words occurring in texts that you want to read.

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student444

As requested a bit more about my level of learning. Please remember I am only able to study under less than ideal situations, so I only have been able to learn the 3,000 characters from Heisig. I practice them periodically so that I keep them in my memory. I have read a few chinese breeze and mandarin companion graded readers. 

My expectation is to be able to read like a normal chinese person at a normal level, I would be happy to be able to read a chinese newspaper or to read an easy story book. I would also like to be able to learn some phrases. Right now I can read chinese, but I can't create it, I can't figure out how to make a sentence. I have studied grammar but only in the sense that it enables me to comprehend what I read. Since I am unable to speak to someone I think the best way for me to understand how to speak it is to learn common phrases.  

So I am really interested in 2 things, to find some resource that will teach me compound words and to find a way to learn phrases which I hope will provide some assistance for when I am in a situation that I can use the language.

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trevorld
2 hours ago, student444 said:

Right now I can read chinese, but I can't create it, I can't figure out how to make a sentence.

 

You could practice producing Chinese even under those conditions.  I often compose (say in pinyin if you usually write Chinese characters with pinyin input) Chinese sentences onto paper with a pen.  Assuming you have access to the internet outside your study time (because you are posting to an internet forum right now) then you could take some of those and input for correction to Lang-8 later when you are on the internet.  Many Chinese textbooks also have "workbooks" which have exercises to drill common patters you can do with a pen and paper and never need access to an internet.

 

 

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TonganRambo

It can be scary speaking a new language. In the very beginning, I found it helpful to memorize phrases, complete sentences, that I could use when I had the opportunity. This bypassed the need to understand everything that was going on in a sentence while still allowing me to communicate (albeit simply). I knew that when I said, "你来自哪里?“ The next couple words out of their mouth would be where they were from. Then I could say, "没有听说过/听说过!" And then I had some set phrases asking about the weather in that area and where it was at in the country, how long they had been in America/England, what they were studying/where they were working, etc.

 

For creating simple sentences, remember STPVO for grammar. Subject - Time - Place - Verb - Object. 

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pross

I finished RSH more than a year ago. Here is what I did:


1. Intermediate grammar course. Search https://edx.org/ for 中级汉语语法. I downloaded the videos and slides and used them offline.

 

2. As I encountered new (compounds) words, I just insert them into my Heisig character practice deck. Like this:

https://www.chinese-forums.com/forums/topic/49830-do-i-learn-characters-first-or-characters-and-sounds/?do=findComment&comment=382145


3. Use a C-C dictionary first.

 

4. Read every day.

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student444

Where can I get a compound word list based on a frquency filter?

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Shelley

I think the fact that the OP can not use the internet, or use downloads, or access any form of electronic learning aids during their study time has been missed by some of the help offered. If you don't have access to a smart phone or pc you can't even use things offline.

 

it would be good if the OP could clarify their situation a bit more so we can make sensible suggestions. How much can you use a computer even when you are not studying, can you download and print things?

Why are you learning chinese? it doesn't matter in the long run why but it helps to suggest relevant things.

 

 

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imron
1 hour ago, student444 said:

Where can I get a compound word list based on a frquency filter?

Well, for example, with the program I linked to above you can open up a novel or some other text you are interested in and then export the top X words ordered by frequency.  Some of them will be single character words, but the majority of them will be compound words, which you can then just print out.

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trevorld
1 hour ago, student444 said:

Where can I get a compound word list based on a frquency filter?

 

There are several different ones out there based on the corpora used and how they define "words".  I use the following one as a quick and dirty sanity check if a compound word is worth studying:

 

http://corpus.leeds.ac.uk/frqc/internet-zh.num

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student444


Thank you shelly for taking the time to read and understand my unique situation. I can download and print things but that is the extent of my internet usage. I could even convert an anki deck to a pdf and print it out, but i cannot work with anything that requires a login, a cd, or any other situation that needs to be viewed on a computer or Smartphone. If it can't be printed out I can't use it. 

My goal in reading chinese is in the short run to be able to read to get a first hand understanding of the culture. i would like to read bestselling books in china and popular blog posts. 

I also would like to be able to speak to myself using an internal dialogue in chinese. For example I want to say "Now I am brushing my teeth" "I am tired its time for bed" "that burger was tasty" all in chinese. Right now I know the words for all of these things but i don't know how to form the sentence, I don't know where the "de" would go and I don't know which compound words to use etc... 

I would be interested to know what kind of resources you think could help me create a proper internal dialogue. I have read 3 grammar books, they have helped me to comprehend my reading, however, I think the best solution for creating an internal dialogue would be a resource of ready made sentences, that way I can pick the ones that are relevant and use them during the day. 

I have searched for a resource of ready made sentences and phrases but I have not found anything. If you can think of a resource for this that would be very helpful. Also if you can suggest a resource that I might not have thought of that would be even more helpful!

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Shelley

Are you able to buy books or borrow them from a library?

There are many good books, some of which might be what you are after, for example "201 Chinese Verbs, Compounds and Phrases for Everyday Use" International Standard Book No. 0-8120-0674-7

 

Let me know if you can get books, if not I will see what there is for download.

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Flickserve
5 hours ago, student444 said:

cannot work with anything that requires a login,

 

How do you login to Chinese forum?

 

if you have difficulty creating sentences, I suggest starting off with the New Chinese Practical reader.

 

Then try to create sentences and you can ask questions on whether they are correct or not on italki Q&A or notebook section - this is assuming you can login on to italki.

 

There is a thread in the relieves sub forum here where there are many sentences plus audio in the form of anki decks. All these sentences are sourced from films. You can download them. Within Anki , you can search for particular words you are interested in and see example sentences.

 

if you search for Chinese Decks m anki, there is jalso another large anki deck called spoon fed Chinese (or something like that).

 

If you know 3000 characters , graded readers with a dictionary seems to be the way to go forward.

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happy_hyaena

How do you define knowing 3000 characters? Do you mean that you can pronounce them perfectly and give all their various dictionary meanings?

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Shelley
9 hours ago, Flickserve said:

How do you login to Chinese forum?

As I understand it when the OP is studying chinese they have no access to the internet of computers.

 

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