Kayres Posted November 6, 2017 at 06:40 PM Report Share Posted November 6, 2017 at 06:40 PM I'm sorry for using this topic for my visa question, but it's not worth creating new topic for it and Jessica seems to get her answers. Does anyone know agents who can make Z visa for non-natives nowadays? We have all the documents ready and verified by the embassy, but or agent failed to make it. Got rejection from Safea. The problem is in the non-native status and work experience. I have only 8 months in China, that I can prove and my friend have none at all. It lowers our chances tremendously. We don't need any work places with top salary or in Tier 1 cities. I understand that those jobs are for natives and that's how it should be. Some small city with reasonable salary would do as long as they provide Z visa. However it seems we'll have to go on M visas and that's rather scary... [Split into new topic from here by Lu. New topics are free!] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuayangAcademy Posted November 7, 2017 at 01:58 AM Report Share Posted November 7, 2017 at 01:58 AM Why are you so determined for a Z visa if you don't care much about the job? Just asking as Z Visas are quite strict in that you can only work or your sponsor company. You aren't free to work wherever you'd like. With regards to your work experience you will not get a Z Visa with less than two years experience, In the past some people have added work experience that didn't really exist but it is very risky and we wouldn't recommend it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavyJonesLocker Posted November 7, 2017 at 04:44 AM Report Share Posted November 7, 2017 at 04:44 AM 10 hours ago, Kayres said: The problem is in the non-native status and work experience. 10 hours ago, Kayres said: Does anyone know agents who can make Z visa for non-natives nowadays? I don't quite understand this "non native status". Visas by definition are for non-natives With the new rules that have come in this year, Z visas are more difficult. They are categorises into A,B and C depending on experience , educational level , salary and so forth I know several English teachers who are now cannot secure positions due to lack of educational certificates and as the chap above said, less than 2 years experience the reality is that many work using student or tourist visas. It's a decision one must decide for themselves. Many companies (including state own companies!) do not even proceed down the visa route as its deemed too much of a hassle. They leave the visa situation to the employee to sort out which effectively means they turn a blind eye to it. The new rules are supposed to make things easier (which they have) however talking to the visa officer in my company they have made it difficult if not impossible for inexperience and /or unqualified applicant. The thinking being that China is more favouring experienced talent and no longer interested in the younger inexperienced foreigners Now, I do not know how much these visa rules are relaxed amongst regions and municipalities. I am led to believe they are however I have no experience Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavyJonesLocker Posted November 7, 2017 at 04:48 AM Report Share Posted November 7, 2017 at 04:48 AM 2 hours ago, HuayangAcademy said: With regards to your work experience you will not get a Z Visa with less than two years experience, Although if you have a TEFL Cert, you are exempt from the 2-year rule I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
889 Posted November 7, 2017 at 06:02 AM Report Share Posted November 7, 2017 at 06:02 AM I'm confused as well by her term, but I'm guessing she's talking about non-native English speakers applying for English teaching jobs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kayres Posted November 7, 2017 at 08:22 AM Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2017 at 08:22 AM 6 hours ago, HuayangAcademy said: Why are you so determined for a Z visa if you don't care much about the job? I'm kinda confused with your replies. You require Z visa if you want to work in China and no other way around. People working on M and L usually got arrested as I know. Also they have to make runs to Hong Kong every few months. I want Z, because it is legal and you can stay in one place without those runs. Well not always legal - some of those Z visas still considered illegal, but still. 3 hours ago, DavyJonesLocker said: I don't quite understand this "non native status". Visas by definition are for non-natives Aren't visas for everyone? You want to come to China - you need visa. 3 hours ago, DavyJonesLocker said: With the new rules that have come in this year, Z visas are more difficult. They are categorises into A,B and C You are right about difficulty, but isn't this new system going only in big cities as Shanghai? I thought the rest of the country work on the old system. 3 hours ago, DavyJonesLocker said: Although if you have a TEFL Cert, you are exempt from the 2-year rule I believe. I have. Well it's online TEFL, but it can be used in applying for documents I guess, as long as you have connections. 2 hours ago, 889 said: I'm confused as well by her term, but I'm guessing she's talking about non-native English speakers applying for English teaching jobs. Yeah, you are right. I'm sorry for not mentioning that in my post. Also I need to apologize for using topic of another person - I didn't know it would get so much of discussion. Thank you for separating it into another topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavyJonesLocker Posted November 7, 2017 at 09:10 AM Report Share Posted November 7, 2017 at 09:10 AM (edited) 57 minutes ago, Kayres said: You are right about difficulty, but isn't this new system going only in big cities as Shanghai? I thought the rest of the country work on the old system. No from April 1st, 2017, this new points system is in effect throughout China. The old system has been revoked As far as I am aware you can apply for a Z visa, you just slot into different categories A, B , and C (being unskilled). The rules are the same across the country, it's just how desirable you are for that region. I don't believe it's an automatic refusal. However, to teach English you really need to be Type B, that requires "A Foreign language teacher who teaches their native language and holds a bachelor’s degree in a country where the primary language is your native language. They also must possess at least two years of teaching experience (those with a bachelor’s degree in a teaching or language-related field, or a TEFL certificate are exempt from this)." So that leaves you as a non native speaker with only Type C In big cities that is unlikely but smaller cities you might have a chance. You mention you got rejected before from SAFEA? What city did you apply for. The whole visa issue is still a pain. I have an A category visa and they wanted to see my PhD from a more than 2 decades ago. It meant flying back my my home country at the last minute to try find it. The no longer accept scanned copies. Best of luck in your application Edited November 7, 2017 at 09:19 AM by DavyJonesLocker posted twice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kayres Posted November 7, 2017 at 09:15 AM Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2017 at 09:15 AM 3 minutes ago, DavyJonesLocker said: What city did you apply for. Yinchuan. I know it's hardly a small one, but our agent trying to apply in smaller cities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kayres Posted November 9, 2017 at 06:38 AM Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2017 at 06:38 AM Hi, again. I want to check if someone knows about those promises that the school can make you Z visa after you come to China and they want you to come on L visa. I understand that they aren't going to do anything after you get to China, but still I want to hear your opinions on this. Maybe I 'm wrong or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kayres Posted November 16, 2017 at 12:56 PM Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2017 at 12:56 PM No one knows anything? Also, how is this process even work? I've found a government school in a really-really small town that claims to be able to make Z visa for us. However they want us to come on L and then they will change it to Z without us leaving to our country. Sounds really fishy, so I want to know if I'm missing something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roddy Posted November 16, 2017 at 01:07 PM Report Share Posted November 16, 2017 at 01:07 PM Kayres, I'm sorry, but I've been seeing this get harder and harder for years and years. At some point, it's going to become impossible. Even if you find somewhere, it might last a year and then you need to leave. Good luck, but... Quote Sounds really fishy, so I want to know if I'm missing something. You're not missing something . It is really fishy. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kayres Posted November 16, 2017 at 02:04 PM Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2017 at 02:04 PM I guess it's time for a plan B - earning money on L or M visa and then use them to study in USA. Thank you for your reply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roddy Posted November 16, 2017 at 02:09 PM Report Share Posted November 16, 2017 at 02:09 PM Look carefully at how you're going to get the money out of the country. I don't know what the rules are now, but back in my day you couldn't do it without showing a contract, taxes paid, etc. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavyJonesLocker Posted November 16, 2017 at 03:27 PM Report Share Posted November 16, 2017 at 03:27 PM 1 hour ago, Kayres said: However they want us to come on L and then they will change it to Z without us leaving to our country. Sounds really fishy, so I want to know if I'm missing something. its china, fishy is part and parcel of life. Looking at your experience, I see no way for you to secure a Z visa legally under the new rules. It sounds to me that your potential employer is going to be a little "creative" in the application process. I can't divulge to much on a public forum but these kind of things are not a rarity by any means but its really something you need to decide for yourself if its a path you want to take Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kayres Posted November 16, 2017 at 07:04 PM Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2017 at 07:04 PM 3 hours ago, DavyJonesLocker said: 6 hours ago, Kayres said: However they want us to come on L and then they will change it to Z without us leaving to our country. Sounds really fishy, so I want to know if I'm missing something. its china, fishy is part and parcel of life. Looking at your experience, I see no way for you to secure a Z visa legally under the new rules. It sounds to me that your potential employer is going to be a little "creative" in the application process. I can't divulge to much on a public forum but these kind of things are not a rarity by any means but its really something you need to decide for yourself if its a path you want to take I'm just curious if it's even possible to make Z visa without leaving China. I know that in China connections affect a lot of things, but not sure how much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavyJonesLocker Posted November 16, 2017 at 08:25 PM Report Share Posted November 16, 2017 at 08:25 PM 1 hour ago, Kayres said: I'm just curious if it's even possible to make Z visa without leaving China. I know that in China connections affect a lot of things, but not sure how much. yes you can, thats no problem. The Chinese authorities need to see a lot of paper work and original documents, CV etc to grant a Z visa, but they do not ring up or ask your previous employer/university for confirmation. It seems open to abusive practices. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kayres Posted November 17, 2017 at 05:17 AM Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2017 at 05:17 AM One more question - do you extend your visa only in HK? This school offers a rather strange thing, in my opinion. 1) Coming on L visa 2) At the same time they apply for Z 3) They extend L visa in Chongqing(school located in Guizhou province), so there will be no need to go to HK. 4)They finish making Z visa without leaving the country. I've never heard of extending visas in other cities than HK, because everyone making runs to this place. What can you tell me about this one? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChTTay Posted November 17, 2017 at 05:54 AM Report Share Posted November 17, 2017 at 05:54 AM If you’re a non-native speaker it’s highly highly unlikely the school can get you a residence work permit these days. As for converting a visa within China, that also seems very hard. It’s also not happening in Hong Kong anymore either. I know two people of different nationalities who came on tourist visas fairly recently with the promise of “converting” them and they’ve just been messed around. “Come quickly, asap! ... Welcome to China! ... We need to extend the visa... oh... there’s a delay, go to HK to get a new tourist visa... oh... it looks like we can’t do it, go back to your home country and apply there.” As for non-native speakers working for agencies or what-not, it’s a tough life. Often work way more hours for a lot less pay and no benefits. I overheard a women from El Salador in the local police station recently saying she gets paid 3k a month with a bedroom in an apartment. She said if she is late for work or misses a day, they deduct her whole weeks pay. I worked with someone from an agency who’s circumstance were a lot better than that but they still had to work 6 days a week. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavyJonesLocker Posted November 17, 2017 at 08:22 AM Report Share Posted November 17, 2017 at 08:22 AM 2 hours ago, Kayres said: I've never heard of extending visas in other cities than HK, because everyone making runs to this place. What can you tell me about this one? Thanks 2 hours ago, ChTTay said: As for converting a visa within China, that also seems very hard. It’s also not happening in Hong Kong anymore either. I changed my visa this year from an X1 to Z and didn't have to leave the country. Remember the rules changed in April this year which means you don't have to leave China. However, I was applying for a category A so that might have made a difference! . I have a vague recollection that my employer might have said that it was for category A only but I'm not certain. As for the rest of @ChTTay comments, yes I can well believe it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChTTay Posted November 17, 2017 at 09:12 AM Report Share Posted November 17, 2017 at 09:12 AM Yeah, I converted visas in the past. Just from my own experience and a few people (including you)’s experience it looks like it’s easier to go student to work than anything else. Recently a few people here couldn’t convert to Z’s and have to pursue other avenues! Likely ...going home and doing it from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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