Disappointment after first trip to China

[889]

"Kids got online shopping now, Granddad . . ."

 

But bookstores remain crowded because they retain their function as public libraries. The big one on Wangfujing seems to do fine business, while the smaller foreign languages bookstore further on is a bit of a mess, a shabby relic of the '80s.

[AdamD]

On 20/12/2017 at 12:24 AM, i__forget said:

1. Exceptionally dirty toilets in public spaces (KFC, restaurants, malls etc). This is humiliating, to have to go through this when I am not in my hotel. This is so bad that even in the lobby of my hotel I could smell their toilet. No soap provided, they dont even wash their hands after using the toilet.

 

This is a country which is still lifting itself out of widespread poverty. The newer malls have much cleaner toilets. If you're worried about hygiene, pop a travel hand cleaner in your bag.

 

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2. People smoke just about everywhere. Even in toilets. Beijing seemed to have some more smoke free places than Qingdao, but as soon as you go to a not so public room (i.e fire escape of a mall, or its toilet) you will smell the smoke again.

 

Like the west 15 years ago?

 

Change is slow in China but it's happening.

 

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3. They spit everywhere. In the corridors of buildings, in toilets, etc. *Inside* of buildings.

 

Mostly in bins, and far fewer younger people spit in public.

 

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4. When you cross the road the cars just run at you, maybe to intimidate you? Very unsafe. Not even in Thailand have I experienced so aggressive drivers when crossing the road.

 

Traffic lights are a serving suggestion. Look and cross carefully, especially in the turning lane.

 

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5. Scammers everywhere in the main tourist spots of Beijing. Imagine going to Oxford Street for shopping and being approached by some losers every time you go to ask you if you want to have a coffee with them.

 

Scammers everywhere in a lot of worldwide tourist hotspots. The trick is to ignore all of them. If you don't respond, you won't get scammed. Alternatively, leave the tourist hotspots.

 

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5. Somehow its expected that you will soon enough get diarrhea in China, without knowing what exactly will cause it. And we have to be OK with this.

 

I'm sorry this happened to you, but diarrhoea is by no means a guarantee. I've never been sick from food in China, and I take a lot of risks (within reason – I avoid tap water and uncooked food, such as salads).

 

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6. Things falling apart without anyone fixing them, such as missing steps from public stairs of concrete etc.

 

As per point 1, China's hauling 20% of the world's population out of a very long period of poverty. There's a lot to do and it takes time.

 

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7. Haggling, man even for a teddy bear in a mall the shop girl oferred to give me a discount. Just tell me how much its final pricre is and stop wasting my time.

 

If you don't like haggling, go to a mall like the ones in Xidan and pay full price.

 

A separate point: I don't enjoy your use of 'they' to generalise a whole country. Are you absolutely sure 1.3 billion people spit 'everywhere' and don't wash their hands?

 

[Shelley]

2 hours ago, roddy said:

21 hours ago, imron said:

Not true!  When I was living in Beijing I'd probably go to the two big bookstores there at least once a year

Kids got online shopping now, Granddad...

 

Yes, but there is just something that is wonderful for the soul about browsing in a bookshop. There is the possibility of discovering something new, finding something old and familiar or just to make sure the copy you are buying is nice and clean without any dog ears.

 

Bookshops have become wondrous creations of architecture and have the feeling of being in a cathedral to books.

[Luxi]

On 20/12/2017 at 1:24 PM, i__forget said:

. Exceptionally dirty toilets in public spaces (KFC, restaurants, malls etc). This is humiliating, to have to go through this when I am not in my hotel. This is so bad that even in the lobby of my hotel I could smell their toilet. No soap provided, they dont even wash their hands after using the toilet.

 

Someone high up is taking care of this situation:

http://www.scmp.com/news/china/policies-politics/article/2121763/chinas-public-bathroom-blitthe z-goes-nationwide-xi-jinping

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2017-11/28/content_35087755.htm

 

I visited China in the early 90s. Believe me, the things you disliked were a lot worse then, though many the things I like about China were probably a lot better then. I too had some degree of cultural shock. However, since much of the material we studied at college was about the Chairman Mao years, the Great Leap Forward, the  Cultural Revolution and the Gang of Four, I also had a reversed-cultural shock. How could a nation with such a huge population that only a few years back had been literally starving to death, raise so quickly out of poverty and cultural oppression, and advance so fast? And this was quite a few years before bullet trains, shopping malls, Internet and  the Alibabas, Huaweis and  Xiaomis.

 

I was also very pleasantly surprised to see how much of what I really love of China: history, philosophy, literature had survived both the Mao years and the modernisation drive. It still surprises and delights me.

[mackie1402]

Just thought I’d give a bit of feedback from my experience in China. I’ve spent 6 years in Hangzhou.

1. While there are some very dirty toilets, I find it pretty easy to find nice toilets. Hangzhou has plenty of ‘5 star’ toilets in public which are kept perfectly clean. In fact, they have a little ‘management room’ where the cleaners live. 
2. People smoke a lot in public yeah, but in shopping centres, shops and metro stations it’s all non-smoking. Even though I was used to the UK not smoking in most places, I don’t find it a problem in China.
3. I heard spitting in public is a fineable offence now, but I could be mistaken. While I do see it pretty often among the older generation, I rarely see it with the younger generation. 
4. I’ve never felt intimated by people driving ‘at’ me. I did find it pretty tough crossing the roads the first time I came, as I wasn’t quite sure when cars could turn even though it’s a green light for walking. I got familiar pretty quickly and now I cross the road more confidently than my Chinese wife does. 
5. I never heard of it being expected to get sick in China. I did read a lot of ‘don’t eat food off a stick’ before I came out, but that’s some of the best food, sometimes! It’s never gotten me sick, though.
6. I kind of agree that things do fall apart in China. I’ve had more lifts break on me in China than my entire time in the UK. The first month of being here I noticed waiters using clipboards which were pretty broken. I’ve got used to it and noticed that if it still works then people will continue to use it. I don’t find it a problem. 
7. Haggling is a great experience in China. It has its highs and lows. I like a bit of haggling, but I’ve never tried to haggle in a shopping centre/mall. I’ll leave that to the small stores and markets. 

These are just a few of my honest opinions for anyone looking to come out to China. 
 

[abcdefg]

1 hour ago, mackie1402 said:

I kind of agree that things do fall apart in China...The first month of being here I noticed waiters using clipboards which were pretty broken. I’ve got used to it and noticed that if it still works then people will continue to use it. I don’t find it a problem. 

 

I like living here (in Kunming) but am not all starry-eyed about China's flaws. This is one of them for sure. "Preventive maintenance" is an alien concept. The gym where I work out has about a fourth of it's machines "out of order." One day this week there was no electricity in the locker room, one day last week there was no hot water. I honestly think someone just built the place and now wants to earn every penny possible without plowing any of the proceeds back into upkeep. There seems to be no active management. I wish they had longer-range vision. 

 

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I never heard of it being expected to get sick in China. 

 

Agree. Being careful about what you eat and where goes a long way towards staying healthy. Once every 3 or 4 or maybe 5 months, I'll get a sudden "gut bomb" from eating bad food I've bought while out and about. When I think back, I usually know where it came from and I don't go there any more.

 

Over the years I've developed some personal "do's and don't's" that change with the season. They aren't bulletproof, but they help. 

[mackie1402]

7 minutes ago, abcdefg said:

I like living here (in Kunming) but am not all starry-eyed about China's flaws. This is one of them for sure. "Preventive maintenance" is an alien concept. The gym where I work out has about a fourth of it's machines "out of order." One day this week there was no electricity in the locker room, one day last week there was no hot water. I honestly think someone just built the place and now wants to earn every penny possible without plowing any of the proceeds back into upkeep. There seems to be no active management. I wish they had longer-range vision. 

 

I've experienced the same! I've been through a few different gyms. We got pulled in by the price, but we noticed it really pays off with a better gym! At one place we were constantly told 'It's getting refurbished in a few months'. The only place to get refurbished was the personal trainers VIP space, which we couldn't access. 

 

On the topic of gyms, one pet hate I have is decorating in China. There have been some really nice gyms opening around me, but they've been decorated real quick and suddenly opened. As soon as you walked in you felt a little dizzy with the fumes. A big brand just opened up next to my office which is perfect for me, but it's just been decorated and is in the basement, so has a serious lack of fresh air. Give it 6 months and I'll sign up I'm sure!

[889]

I think it's just a different approach. Instead of regular upkeep, most Chinese businesses seem to wait and then do a full make-over. Look at hotels: every four or five years even pretty small places seem to re-do the rooms. But in-between, those bathroom leaks continue unplugged.

[imron]

6 hours ago, roddy said:

Kids got online shopping now, Granddad..

Plenty of kids sitting in the aisles of said bookshops everytime I go and visit (even in recent times).  Online shopping is just not the same.

[realmayo]

China's pretty awful and looks like it's going to get awfuller and awfuller but that doesn't mean it can't be enormous fun to live there.

[i__forget]

16 minutes ago, realmayo said:

China's pretty awful and looks like it's going to get awfuller and awfuller but that doesn't mean it can't be enormous fun to live there.

Apart from the girls in what other ways is it fun for you? Enlighten me for the next time I am back!

[happy_hyaena]

4 hours ago, Shelley said:

Yes, but there is just something that is wonderful for the soul about browsing in a bookshop. There is the possibility of discovering something new, finding something old and familiar or just to make sure the copy you are buying is nice and clean without any dog ears.

 

Bookshops have become wondrous creations of architecture and have the feeling of being in a cathedral to books.

 

I don't really care much for bookshops in my home country, but as a student of a foreign language I love visiting book stores in China. There are few things more motivational than walking around and seeing with your eyes all the literature you will one day be able to understand. Not to forget, their very low prices! What would get you 5 books in the West could get you 20 in a proper book store. More if you check out the flea markets. 

 

1 hour ago, imron said:

Plenty of kids sitting in the aisles of said bookshops everytime I go and visit (even in recent times).  Online shopping is just not the same.

 

True, but you have to hand it to the Chinese when it comes to e-commerce. No one can beat them.

 

36 minutes ago, i__forget said:

Apart from the girls in what other ways is it fun for you? Enlighten me for the next time I am back!

 

Here we go 

[realmayo]

4 minutes ago, happy_hyaena said:

you have to hand it to the Chinese when it comes to e-commerce. No one can beat them.

Labour is cheap.
 

4 minutes ago, happy_hyaena said:

Here we go 

Eye-roll indeed.....

[happy_hyaena]

2 minutes ago, realmayo said:

Labour is cheap.

Yes, but also population density and the fact that they manufacture everything anyway.

[abcdefg]

11 hours ago, 889 said:

I think it's just a different approach. Instead of regular upkeep, most Chinese businesses seem to wait and then do a full make-over. Look at hotels: every four or five years even pretty small places seem to re-do the rooms.

 

Agree. It looks that way to me too. I've stayed in hotels that were only two or three years old that were falling apart and prematurely shabby. 

[studychinese]

The OP isn't really wrong about anything that s/he wrote. Its all true.

 

The other day a beginner traveler asked me whether she should go to China or Thailand for her first overseas trip. I told her to go to Thailand. The tourist infrastructure for foreign tourists just isn't sufficient to give independent tourists a good time. The learning curve is steep, and there are many annoyances in addition to the annoyances described by the OP.

 

I think China takes time to enjoy. If your trip is only a couple of weeks, you may be disappointed. If you have a few months to spare you may enjoy yourself. If you only have a short trip, Thailand, Vietnam, and really most of the other countries in Asia are probably a better choice.

[smalldog]

I know two people have already mentioned this, but I think you'd be much happier visiting Taiwan.  You'd get the same opportunity to use the Chinese language but without the annoyances you've experienced in the mainland.

 

Toilets and spitting are only very superficial aspects of life in China, and it is a fascinating place to get to know if you can ignore the annoyances and really immerse yourself in the culture and learn the language.

[ChTTay]

Taiwan’s not the same though. 

 

If you’re a beginner learning Chinese and have been using standard mandarin materials I think you’d likely struggle a bit. 

[imron]

30 minutes ago, ChTTay said:

Taiwan’s not the same though. 

I think that's the whole point

[ChTTay]

@imron China’s China man 

 

I personally love it. Everywhere has bad points. 

 

I did enjoy my trip to Taiwan recently too. Really chilled place. While Taiwanese food is good, I think the food on the mainland is better though.