Outofin Posted August 16, 2005 at 04:58 PM Report Share Posted August 16, 2005 at 04:58 PM (Reading an old thread about Uproar in Heaven made me write this.) Wukong (aka Monkey King, Goku) is a monkey monster in Chinese classic Journey to the West, written in the 16th century. The insubordinate monkey defied the heaven. The heaven used every plots to try to control him but only to find that the heaven’s dignity seemed so ridiculous and irrelevant and all it efforts were futile. The monster was finally condemned by Buddha but was given a second chance 500 years after he was contained under a mountain. He served a monk going far west to India to obtain religious texts. (The monk was a real person in history.) Wukong didn’t follow anyone’s order before, but he acknowledged the powerless mortal as his master. Uproar in Heaven is definitely a classical film, much better than Disney of the same time. Shamefully, the film seems not preserved well. Its color is washed out over time. I wish someone could re-master it and better to make a digital copy. Besides the classic, there’re quite a lot by-products and new interpretations. Goku is the Japanese translation of Wukong. There’re comic books like Dragon Ball and Saiyuki Goku, which revised a lot from the original book. Stephen Chow also made a movie (with 2 episodes) about Wukong, which is extremely hot among college students. The movie is irrelevant to the book neither. In the movie, Wukong tries to escape from the journey and his master is a very garrulous and annoying person. I do like his interpretation. Every Chinese kid and perhaps many Asian kids know the monkey and love him. It maybe because children imagine that they could be the monkey whom no one could control. The monkey’s only dream is to live with his pals in his Huaguo Mountain and enjoy the sun and peaches. And his story is especially funny when his brother Bajie, a piggy monster, shows up. Now I’ve grown up, when I think of the monkey again, I find different qualities on him. He’s by his nature really a dark hero. He’s a mix of insubordination and loyalty. And the insubordination is always in his blood. To me, he’s no longer a cute and pretty monkey who makes fun of his piggy brother and could easily defeat all monsters. He’s really an ugly and furious monkey, roaring in the heaven and taunting the long established order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenlan Posted August 16, 2005 at 07:51 PM Report Share Posted August 16, 2005 at 07:51 PM Do you find Xiyouji a long and boring book? Many people have said so. I wonder if there is more depth to the book than I realise myself, not knowing enough about Buddhist thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skylee Posted August 16, 2005 at 11:42 PM Report Share Posted August 16, 2005 at 11:42 PM Wukong didn't follow anyone's order before, but he acknowledged the powerless mortal as his master. You've forgotton the 金剛圈+緊箍咒 ... I love Stephen Chow's films too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outofin Posted August 17, 2005 at 12:23 AM Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2005 at 12:23 AM Do you find Xiyouji a long and boring book? Many people have said so. Yes, it's long and boring. But that's how classic is. Some classical films are no better than an average newly released movie. A scare fiction in early ages could only make you laugh. But we call them classic because they inspire people even today. I didn't really read Journey to the West. I first heard the story from my father. And I saw Uproar in Heaven and many Chinese comic books. I've never finished Romance of Three Kingdoms. When I was a child, a storyteller told the whole story on radio. I spent everyday's noontime listening it. And I've played many Three Kingdoms games. Only if I have questions, would I look into the book for answers. So no need to force yourself read it if you don't like it. Maybe they just happen not to be your classic. You've forgotton the 金剛圈+緊箍咒 ... 緊箍咒 could be the only reason that Wukong followed Tang Seng in the begining. But later, it was very clear in 三打白骨精 that Wukong wanted to protect the monk. They built a relation between master and apprentice. This is a novel. I put it my understanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorkie_bear Posted August 17, 2005 at 07:09 AM Report Share Posted August 17, 2005 at 07:09 AM Monkey magic! ok this is a little off topic & I'm sorry to lower the tone, but did you used to watch the tv series of Journey to the West when you were a child? Maybe there's already a post about it somewhere... I used to love it. The bad dubbing was part of the charm! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenpv Posted August 17, 2005 at 05:04 PM Report Share Posted August 17, 2005 at 05:04 PM while, as for me, i like 西游记 and i have read it for more than 10 times. i dont know how is work translated into english, but i believe its not as good as the chinese version. Wukong (aka Monkey King, Goku) is a monkey monster outofin, i prefer monkey elf personally. actually, 'a journey to the west' is tragedy dipping in atmosphere of imagination and adventure. the author just wanted to reflect the dark political as well as societal realities through these characters. In the work, the whole cabinet of deities stand for the power and cruel rule, and the adventure team is the representative of the ordinary people(老百姓)。 the plot of the adventure is an inevitable helpless process that the ordinary people gradually surrender to the govenment. He’s by his nature really a dark hero. He’s a mix of insubordination and loyalty. And the insubordination is always in his blood. To me, he’s no longer a cute and pretty monkey who makes fun of his piggy brother and could easily defeat all monsters. He’s really an ugly and furious monkey, roaring in the heaven and taunting the long established order. outofin, can dark hero be seen as '落魄英雄'？i dont know what u think about him, but thats my remark for him. he tried to fight against the dark side of the word, and he failed, but that doest suggest that he would totally give up his belief and give in to the dark. is he really insubordinate and loyal? i dont think so. in order to survive, in order to gain relative freedom, he just has to 'calm down' but once there is a chance, he will curse the inequity of the sky.(there are lots examples.) 猪八戒，he is realist. he is not at all stupid but clear in mind that whats going on in the world and what will happen if he chooses to act as 孙悟空。In the dark world, what does he want for a life? Food and wife. he just wants to die happy and peaceful without interruption. and thats why 孙悟空 looks down upon him and makes fun of him. acutually, in my opinion, to some extent, 猪八戒 looks down upon his monkey brother too. 沙和尚，he is the president of majority ordinary people who dont know whats happening in world. he is the stupid loyalty in the work( although we can not blame on the majority). 唐僧，he is a spy from the dark side and i dont want to comment on him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Song You Shen Posted August 17, 2005 at 05:42 PM Report Share Posted August 17, 2005 at 05:42 PM Journey to the West is one of the greatest books I've ever read. I've only read the english translation though, so I don't know if it is lacking anything from the original (which I'm sure, to an extent, it is). I have been looking for a video version of it with english subtitles forever! But I have not found any. Youshen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hekate Posted August 17, 2005 at 07:38 PM Report Share Posted August 17, 2005 at 07:38 PM I've read somewhere that Jeff Lau is going to make another movie if Journey West, but this time focusing on the monk. There will be a new cast and Nicolas Tse will play the monk. I really enjoyed the two parts of Chinese Odyssey which I've seen several times (Pandora Box & Cinderilla) starring Stephen Chow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenlan Posted August 17, 2005 at 08:37 PM Report Share Posted August 17, 2005 at 08:37 PM I have only read 5 chapters in English, but the Monkey King seemed to me to be a bad person. I think many Chinese people always had repressive governments, and so they related to a revolt against Heaven? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outofin Posted August 19, 2005 at 06:50 PM Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 at 06:50 PM i prefer monkey elf personally. Elf sounds like a feminine word to me. can dark hero be seen as '落魄英雄'? Dark hero is the opposite of the (regular) hero. He destroys the existing corrupted order rather than build a new one. And dark hero doesn’t follow too many moral values. But, like you said, Wukong gradually lost his guts. did you used to watch the tv series of Journey to the West when you were a child? I was not the age to watch the serie, so I only watched a few. I think it was well done. CCTV doesn't know how to attract audiences. Their programs are usually boring compared to HK's. But they have larger resources (especially in term of actors) and higher standards than HKers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laolee Posted August 21, 2005 at 06:06 PM Report Share Posted August 21, 2005 at 06:06 PM Uproar in Heaven is definitely a classical film, much better than Disney of the same time. Shamefully, the film seems not preserved well. Its color is washed out over time. I wish someone could re-master it and better to make a digital copy. Outofin, did you see the reissue last year for the 40th anniversary? I thought the color was very good, personally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outofin Posted August 21, 2005 at 10:33 PM Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2005 at 10:33 PM Outofin, did you see the reissue last year for the 40th anniversary? I thought the color was very good, personally. Glad hearing that! No, I didn't know it. I will definitely buy a DVD of the reissue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laolee Posted August 22, 2005 at 10:06 PM Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 at 10:06 PM Be sure to get the 2 disc version, see the other thread for more details. Remember, no English subs, but it doesn't matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobAnt Posted September 8, 2005 at 10:02 PM Report Share Posted September 8, 2005 at 10:02 PM Elf sounds like a feminine word to me. It might sound feminine, but it isn't. An elf is simply a mythical small person, similar to a Dwarf or Pixie. Fairies are usually thought of as being female, but I don't believe they're actually absolutely defined as such (indeed gay men are sometimes called fairies in a derogatory fashion). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhao Hanqing Posted May 19, 2006 at 10:17 PM Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 at 10:17 PM Xiyouji is a very deep book. If you know something about Buddhism, you will agree to that. Though a novel of immortals and divinities, it is true to human life. It is more realistic than you could imagine. Wu Cheng'en had a thorough knowledge of Chinese society during Ming dynasty, you should know what it was like in Ming times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhao Hanqing Posted May 21, 2006 at 12:47 AM Report Share Posted May 21, 2006 at 12:47 AM The English translation by Jenner is a perfect one.X Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhende ma? Posted May 21, 2006 at 05:10 AM Report Share Posted May 21, 2006 at 05:10 AM A new cartoon version of Xiyouji was produced last year by Wang Animation based in Taiwan (though production was mostly done in China). It is <<红孩儿大话火焰山>>. The animation was modern and excellent and the voice acting good as well. It covers the story of the pilgrims and their run-in with Fire Mountain, Princess Iron Fan, Devil Bull? (牛魔王) and their son. It is definitely aimed at kids but I found it very entertaining nonetheless. Unfortunately I don't think a version has been realized in the US (even one with only subtitles). You can always check though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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