Cantonese N/L shifts

[atitarev]

I thought if you ask them to record it would be similar to that web-site. I didn't check for specific words. 乸 is missing but there are other words with N initial.

No, I am not trying to teach anyone, I thought you both can listen and check and discuss what you think further. It's probably hard to say what is correct or standard for Cantonese just because its pronunciation is not standardized, there are multiple versions of romanizations and not all Cantonese specific characters are part of Big5 code set. Languages do change, if a change becomes too widespread it becomes a standard.

Textbooks do mention these shifts in Cantonese pronunciation apart from the mentioned above (N -> L, gw - g), they say about dropping NG as initial 我 NGO as O, 澳門 Ngomun as Omun, etc.

[opper567]

Does anyone know when (which decade) Cantonese speakers started to drop the ng- initial? How about when Cantonese speakers started to use L- N- shifts?

[Quest]

Skipping the initial ng and especially the final ng is more a hongkong thing, but the n to l and gw to g shifts are widespread in Guangzhou, too.

[skylee]

澳門 Ngomun

I haven't even heard of that. This is so enlightening.

A search has given me this -> http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/lexi-can/search.php?q=%BFD

Oh perhaps that is not to be trusted. Perhaps it should be Ngomun afterall.

[xng]

1. If you are still not convinced on lisa wang. Then listen to leslie cheung and cheung hok yau, both of them speak perfect cantonese.

2. Go to this site for the character chicken (there is a female chicken entry)

http://www.cantonese.sheik.co.uk/dictionary/characters/169/

3. Cantonese in malaysia and singapore use "na" too.

[atitarev]

I don't have an online proof for Ngomun pronunciation, it must be really obsolete, unlike NGO (I) and some others but some of my books give 2 versions - Oumun and Ngoumun.

[geraldc]

Wasn't dropping the "ng" a regional thing, I was always told that some people used to speak like that in the countryside, but now it's the sort of things that some kids do too.

[Quest]

1. If you are still not convinced on lisa wang. Then listen to leslie cheung and cheung hok yau, both of them speak perfect cantonese.

2. Go to this site for the character chicken (there is a female chicken entry)

http://www.cantonese.sheik.co.uk/di...characters/169/

3. Cantonese in malaysia and singapore use "na" too.

1. xng, every single one of my relatives and family members speaks perfect 广州话， the oldest being my father's parents who were born in the last days of the Qing dynasty in Guangzhou and who spent their lifetime in 广州西关，and then all their children who grew up in 西关 before moving out to other parts of 广州，and relatives from my mother's side also grew up in other parts of 广州 and speak perfect 广州话，so I don't know what to look for from leslie or jacky.

2. As I said before, nei/lei nan/lan nam/lam mixups are still pretty acceptable, but "na" sounds foreign to me.

3. I don't really know how Malaysia and Singapore Cantonese sounds, but I don't think people would look to Singapore or Malaysia for a Cantonese standard.

I don't doubt they used "na" in the past, but it just sounds odd to me now, because I've never heard "na" in Guangzhou, and when I say "gai na" to myself, it just doesn't make sense, so maybe your "gai na" sounds different, and I would really like to hear it.