Best place to study in the winter for a month?

[Flickserve]

Perhaps you can pick up some ideas through this epic thread

 

https://www.chinese-forums.com/forums/topic/43939-independent-chinese-study-review/?tab=comments#comment-328291

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On 6/12/2019 at 12:14 AM, Jan Finster said:

Another idea I had was to ditch the whole "immersion" aspect this time (since December sounds suboptimal). Instead I could stay in Thailand at a beach and take online Chinese lessons for 4-6 hours a day and study 2-4 hours at the beach by myself. I wonder how inferior such a non-immersion trip would be (?) 

 

You're joking, right? That would be insane. Go to a beach in Thailand and study Thai. Or study nothing. Eat shrimp and drink beer. Work on your tan. Winter is high season there. Weather is ideal. 

 

December is not suboptimal at all for learning Chinese in China. It's the perfect time of year. 

 

Since you have climate issues, go to the lower part of Taiwan, as already suggested. Taichung or Kaohsiung would be perfect. 

 

 

[Jan Finster]

7 hours ago, abcdefg said:

go to the lower part of Taiwan, as already suggested. Taichung or Kaohsiung would be perfect. 

 

I have looked into Taichung and Khaosiung and they look really nice. I will also consider Tainan for a week or so. Thanks!

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I've only been as a tourist, but all three of those Taiwan cities really did appeal to me. 

 

 

[zhouhaochen]

The problem with tutors and immersion is that the more immersive a place is (no or very small foreign community) the less likely you are to find a good (or any) experienced Chinese language tutor there. Good Chinese teachers are where there is work for them (and like everyone they get better with work experience - if there are no foreigners to teach, they dont get better), so that is no problem in the big centers like Beijing or Shanghai, but very difficult in smaller towns. You can get a graduate with English skills and enthusiasm - but that is not a real teacher (yet). We spend a lot of time and work training teachers in cities where there arent any (like Beihai or Chengde) or try to send them there from other cities (which is surprisingly difficult - the insistence of Chinese people to live in very big and expensive cities when they could have a much better quality of life with a good job in a smaller one puzzles me every time again). It is significantly harder (and more expensive) to provide good teaching quality in smaller cities than big ones.

So if you are looking for a free lance tutor, a big city will have a lot more to offer. Tutors there will have their own issues, but at least there is a market for them, as well as choices available.

Christmas is low season for pretty much all Chinese language teaching institutions on the mainland, so its actually a very good time to come to China to learn Mandarin. You might be able to get discounts (for example LTL offers -25% on all courses over Christmas).

 

For learning Chinese on a beach in Thailand, I think abcdefg's comment is spot on.

[Jan Finster]

Since I started this thread, I wanted to write a short follow-up on what I ended up doing.

 

I spent 4 weeks (December 2019) in Taiwan. First 1 week in Tainan, then 2 weeks in Kaohsiung and finally 1 week in Kenting. I did not attend a local language school since I prefer the flexibility of Skype tutoring. Also, the purpose of my visit changed from a hard core language immersion month to mostly a much needed holiday  to recharge my batteries. I got to Taiwan seriously overworked and badly needed some rest. So, my daily schedule was very relaxed and a mixture of sight seeing, independent language learning and chilling.

 

Here are some reflections on my time in Taiwan:

0) A major factor in choosing Taiwan over mainland China in December was the weather (and the fact that in the warm south of China most people seem to speak Cantonese). The weather was really nice: overall sunny and mostly blue skies. I only had 1 day of rain in 4 weeks. It was warm to slightly cool. Warm enough to swim in the ocean (Kenting), but definitely not hot. Bring your sweater and jacket! I was a bit concerned about the level of pollution in Kaohsiung and the countless gasoline motorbikes, but I have been to Beijing in December before and compared to Beijing the pollution in Kaohsiung is nothing (=unhealthy for sensitive people). I know Taipei would have been a better choice regarding pollution, but I intentionally went to the south of Taiwan because the weather is better and Kaohsiung and Tainan are considerably cheaper than Taipei. 

1) I stayed in cheap hotels and paid about 30€/night on average. In Kaohsiung you can stay in the amazing SkyTower (85) and enjoy great views for relatively little money. I researched on booking.com and if I am not mistaken the value for money in Kaohsiung is much better than in Taipei.

2) I have been to Taiwan (Taipei) before, but it was only this time that I realized how amazingly friendly and happy Taiwanese people are. In Germany we have an expression ("Lebenslust") that I believe fits Taiwanese people: it is a joyful happiness that I have seen to some extent in Bali, but certainly not to that extent in (mainland) China. Engaging with Taiwanese people was always a pleasure and I did not have a single negative encounter with them in 4 weeks. 

3) Some people on this forum are very concerned about going to the right places in order to learn the "right" Chinese accent. Also, on this thread and elsewhere some people were advising against places that have a local language (Hakka, Cantonese, etc): while I did notice that the Taiwanese Chinese is somewhat different to the Mainland Chinese I am learning, it did not bother me much.  I guess, you get used to it quite quickly. One thing that did bother me however were the traditional characters. Probably my Chinese reading skills are not good enough at this stage, but the traditional characters made it even worse.

4) My main focus for this trip was to improve my everyday speaking skills. In the past, in mainland China, I had these gut wrenching experiences of people staring at me blankly because they did not understand my Chinese. During this trip, I was able to practice the same expressions day after day and I could practice what I was going to say in advance. I had a few blank stares, but overall a lot of positive reinforcement. There was even one occasion where the waitress asked me to translate for an American tourist, because she thought I spoke Chinese fluently. So, the downside of learning phrases or situations to fluency is that people will reply to you in full speed Mandarin and then the whole bluff is over ? Anyway, knowing that I can make myself understood was an awesome experience

5) One major realization was that there is nothing that beats spending time in a Mandarin-speaking country. Once you are actually in the country, what you study becomes relevant. Studying hairdresser-related vocabulary in your home country is not terribly relevant. Getting your hair cut in Taiwan and having to negotiate how you want it to look will suddenly make the vocabulary highly relevant.

While I may not be able to spend extended periods of time in China or Taiwan in the near future, even short trips like the one I did are highly motivating.

6) Finally, while I learned tons of new vocabulary, my Chinese is not yet at a level where I can hold conversations with native speakers. So, maybe I made this trip at a too early stage. I was mostly practicing everyday phrases (ordering coffee/food, buying stuff, asking for directions, asking if I can rent a bike or use the gym; hotel check-ins, taxi rides, etc). I wished my Chinese was better so that I could confidently chat with strangers. There were several occasions where people tried to engage me in a conversation (你刚下班吗?), but since I lacked the skills, I replied with 1-3 words and pretty much chickened out. I will continue my Chinese-learning journey and try to practice conversations with my main Skype tutor and some new italki tutors. Hopefully, by next time I will be able to have more (meaningful) conversations.

 

 

 

 

[mungouk]

Glad to hear I'm not the only one who enjoys studying while on holiday... ?

 

One of the things I really like about having Skype lessons is that I don't have to stop them when I'm travelling, so long as the internet connection is fast enough.

 

 

 

 

[suMMit]

@Jan Finsterthe fact that in the warm south of China most people seem to speak Cantonese).

 

This is completely untrue

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Glad it worked out well!

 

Traditional characters always throw me for a loop too when I visit Taiwan or Hong Kong. 

 

14 hours ago, Jan Finster said:

One major realization was that there is nothing that beats spending time in a Mandarin-speaking country. Once you are actually in the country, what you study becomes relevant.

 

This is a big realization. I agree completely. Nothing beats immersion as a way to facilitate solid progress. I think of it as a "necessary but not sufficient condition." I realize this isn't true for everyone. Some people can make decent progress back in Cleveland or Stuttgart by just using textbooks and on-line tutors, but I never could. On the other hand, just being in country and not making an effort to acquire the language won't work either. The language does not just magically seep in.  

 

In my early years of spending time in China when I was trying not only to learn the language but trying to get a feel for how it would be to live here part time, I did all sorts of crazy stuff to enhance the experience. One example that comes to mind now is that even if I was staying at an international chain hotel where over half the guests were English speakers, I remember going through the buffet serving line refusing to point at the items I wanted. I would stuff my hands in my pockets and insist on saying "I want one portion of eggs and two slices of bacon" (in Chinese of course.) Made myself use the language even when the easy way would have been to momentarily opt out and just point. That approach soon led to refinements, and before long I could tell the cook (in Chinese,) "I want two eggs over easy, not too well done." 

[Jan Finster]

8 hours ago, suMMit said:

@Jan Finsterthe fact that in the warm south of China most people seem to speak Cantonese).

 

This is completely untrue

 

It is completely untrue ? This was my misconception that brought me to Taiwan. In fact,  before my Taiwan adventure I spent one week in Guangzhou at a conference. I was so surprised that 2 friends, who grew up in Guangzhou would speak Mandarin to the taxi driver and among each other. I was able to use Mandarin in Guangzhou just fine and would have loved to stay there. Totally awesome city and in my opinion much nicer than Shanghai and Beijing.