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Jan Finster

Coronavirus - those in China, and general discussion

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zander1
17 minutes ago, Lu said:

I've made my peace with the fact that I'll never know if I've had it.

 

 

There are some promising developments on an antibody test to see if you've had it in the past. I think this will be vital in the future when (slowly) getting out of quarantine but before a full vaccine is developed.

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Flickserve
14 hours ago, 889 said:

If you've been reading in the Chinese press about the near-miraculous way the Chinese government has brought local infections down to near zero, you might also want to read this report from RTHK, Hong Kong's public broadcaster.

 

"Wuhan denying virus tests to keep numbers down"

 

There are quite a few other countries not testing much - Indonesia, Japan, Iran , UK. USA (though that should be changing).

 

Three tidbits of note

 

In some local HK news, party spot Lan Kwai Fong is continues to be hotspot amongst the other mainly overseas acquired infections

 

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/health-environment/article/3076729/coronavirus-hong-kong-confirms-30-new-cases

 

There are deliberate quarantine breakers and the public have finally had enough - each one has a tag and I received a whatsapp video  of this particular girl breaking quarantine and being filmed. People will be calling the police liberally looking to maintain the law which is a bit of change from six months ago. Breaking the quarantine penalties are a bit minor (IMO) - I reckon a year of being denied travel out of HK would be more effective in strengthening compliance considerably

 

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/law-and-crime/article/3076707/coronavirus-video-clip-13-year-old-girl-dining-hong

 

Third, expat backlash against those not wearing masks is increasing.

 

" Brown, a 52-year-old US-Canadian citizen who flies private jets, quickly assessed the unmasked foreigners as recent returnees -- part of the wide swath of wealthy expats who left Hong Kong in the early days of the outbreak, only to return when the disease spread around the world.

 

Now these returnees are at the center of controversy as imported cases of the virus threaten a city widely regarded as a model of containment.

 

“They thought they were escaping the virus and now they’re bringing it back with them,” said Brown. “It really annoys me. If anyone is masking up, it should be the people who left and came back. We stuck it out and stayed.” "

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-23/hong-kong-expats-point-fingers-over-who-s-spreading-coronavirus

 

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ChTTay

Heard someone say that Beijing was less safe due to “all the foreigners returning” today. Drives you a bit nuts.
 

Seems like the countries where imported cases are coming from is widely publicised and reported. However, the fact that they’re mostly Chinese returnees is less so. Either that or it’s just ignored by those reading.

 

Was also pointed out to that same person flights aren’t even coming into Beijing anymore. They’re being diverted beforehand for testing and quarantine. No response to that :wall

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889

But keep this in perspective: with over 100,000 people soon to be home quarantined in Hong Kong, it's pretty inevitable a few will head outside.

 

And since the families of those quarantined at home are free to head out, there's a message there that the quarantine isn't all that serious.

 

Real quarantine in a quarantine centre is required. The problem is, the Government just doesn't have the places to hold 100,000-plus arrivals in true quarantine for two weeks.

 

Anyway, so much easier to make it look like foreigners are the problem by banning overseas visitors and expats drinking in bars.

 

On the plus side, new infections have been declining since peaking on March 20.

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Shelley

Here in the UK we are supposed to be staying home, everything shut except for essential shops and business - but it seems no one is listening.

 

Sunday Snowdonia national park recorded the highest ever visitor numbers, parks were full and people were gathering in groups in town centre.

 

We shut our shop over a week ago and have remained in since except for food runs. Today someone ring the bell of our shop and wanted to buy something we didn't sell, I didn't deal with them, Simon did. There were 3 of them out for a stroll, why?

 

I expected it to look like a post apocalyptic scene, tumbleweed blowing down the road, the sound of the birds the only noise to be heard. That is not what is happening. Roads are busy, people out and about, shops open.

 

I just want to shout at them - what are you thinking, go home and stay there.

 

Oh and the magic powers of the face mask - they think if they have one on it will protect them 100%, maybe it might work a bit if they even wore them correctly.

I have been identified as someone at risk, so its 12 weeks lockin for me. I don't mind, lots to do, just as long as I can get some food I will be happy.

 

 

 

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Flickserve
3 hours ago, 889 said:

Anyway, so much easier to make it look like foreigners are the problem by banning overseas visitors and expats drinking in bars.


they are part of the problem. Every single extra control removes one further potential opportunity for less social distancing. Expats Caucasians are definitely less likely to wear masks; they stand close together and like to have drinks (without a mask of course), go to multiple bars and thus they offer a greater chance of cross infection if having asymptomatic infection. They are as visible as Chinese people in western countries wearing masks. Expats not wearing masks are not making things easy for themselves. What the local HKer thinks is that everyone is pulling their weight in being a good at hygiene  and there are bad eggs spoiling the huge community effort - the local HKers who also flaunt hygiene practices (Like the quarantine breakers) are also criticised.
 

Singapore and Australia amongst other have also closed borders to “foreigners” so Hong Kong by all means isn’t unique in this respect. The figures show imported cases are a significant problem and whilst a state cannot refuse entry of its own citizens, closing off to non-residents is an option to try and flatten the curve and control the situation.


 

3 hours ago, 889 said:

On the plus side, new infections have been declining since peaking on March 20.


I am a bit cautious in making that call at the moment. Would rather see at least two weeks of consistent declines of new cases. There are some cases where the transmission has not been able to be linked.
 

3 hours ago, 889 said:

And since the families of those quarantined at home are free to head out,


As you have mentioned before. Some are good with the immediate family members also self quarantining and some are pretty stupid. 

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889

"As you have mentioned before. Some are good with the immediate family members also self quarantining and some are pretty stupid."

 

They are not just part of the problem, but a HUGE part of the problem. Worth mentioning again and again. Do you honestly know first-hand any family members who are indeed absolutely quarantining themselves for 14 days as well, no trips to Wellcome even? As well, most middle-class families have a helper, and a helper can't possibly be forbidden to leave the flat without a Government order in place.

 

And if you've got your eyes open, you know it's not "Caucasian expats" still heading to wedding banquets or crowding McDonalds (now closed in the evenings). Not a word there about them!

 

It's just so much easier to carry on in a rather racist fashion about those "Caucasian expats," who no doubt spend their evenings getting drunk in LKF, then getting intimate with each other.

 

Cross-infections, you know.

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feihong
5 hours ago, Jan Finster said:

Is this Texan governor seriously considering to sacrifice 5% of the population for the sake of the economy (?) [what he does not realize is that it is not just the seniors that are at risk]

Yes, but what he’s implicitly saying is that he’s fine with old people from the lower classes being sacrificed. As a rich old person, he’ll probably be fine. 

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Flickserve
5 hours ago, 889 said:

Do you honestly know first-hand any family members who are indeed absolutely quarantining themselves for 14 days as well, no trips to Wellcome even?

 

Actually, yes! And it's more than one.

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Flickserve
6 hours ago, 889 said:

It's just so much easier to carry on in a rather racist fashion about those "Caucasian expats," who no doubt spend their evenings getting drunk in LKF, then getting intimate with each other.

 

It is obvious you think I have a racist agenda and taken a personal slight to me. I have been careful to try and give a balanced opinion on the undercurrent feeling in the community. 

 

I don't think there is any point in hiding what's going on even though it makes uncomfortable reading for you. I have also given references to some news reports to try and show a balanced picture of what's happening in the community and current opinion. The virus attacks the weak links in society. If Caucasian expats get associated as a weak link and a risk factor by not increasing a type of herd immunity by wearing masks and having a disregard for social distancing, it would be better to have a go at those people rather than think I have a racist agenda. 

 

If you think I haven't been balanced, by all means report me to the administrator for corrective measures.

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889

"I don't think there is any point in hiding what's going on . . ."

 

My point is that by focusing at length on the "Caucasian expats" and completely ignoring all the non-Caucasian non-expats out there very openly engaging in close encounters in restaurants and such, you're failing yourself to "show a balanced picture of what's happening in the community."

 

Hey, let's head out for yum cha!

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Shelley

Here in the UK after stricter rules were imposed, police in London had to break up about 20 people having a BBQ.:shock:

 

The morning tube was just as pack as normal and some queues were well behaved others people stood in little groups and ignored the 2 metre rule.

 

One chap of 60+ complained that the politicians were gathering in parliament so why can't he go to the pub.

 

Why don't they understand - 3 months of these restrictions for a better outcome. Even if they don't care about themselves, think about the rest of us.

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ZhuoMing

I have been getting rejected from things left and right here in Chengdu since last Saturday, due to not having the jiankangma. Even was refused service at a restaurant once. Some places make me fill out paper sign in, some just have to show a picture of my passport to get in, but some places totally refuse me. I tried to go to one of those tacky "ancient towns" and they wouldn't let me in without a 14天隔离证书(or something like that). I imagine if I get that I can use it to get in anywhere, but I have no idea where I would go to get that done. I haven't quarantined for 14 days but I have been in China for over 2 months.  

 

Has anyone else had this problem and/or know where to get this certificate? 

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imron
On 3/19/2020 at 4:01 AM, imron said:

Australia is currently doubling in cases every 3-4 days - see this graph which I’ve been keeping an eye on since under 100 cases. Unless we can flatten the curve we’ll be at 2,000 cases in a week or so. 

Aaaaaand, less than a week later, we're now at 2,400 cases.  Hurray for exponential growth.  :wall:shrug::wall  At this rate, it'll be 10,000 a week from now.

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ChTTay
4 hours ago, ZhuoMing said:

Has anyone else had this problem and/or know where to get this certificate? 

Sounds terrible! So far nothing like that in Beijing. Do you have an apartment pass? Having one should prove that you’re free and clear. Many places don’t give you one until you’ve done your time. Could try it. 

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roddy
8 hours ago, Shelley said:

The morning tube was just as pack as normal

That's not quite the whole picture. Tube journeys are down massively, but reductions in service (cause of which currently subject to a political spat) and reluctance of businesses to close if they think they can get away with it have meant some rush hour trains remain busy. So it's not yet ideal, but it's nowhere near normal. 

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Ruben von Zwack
47 minutes ago, roddy said:

Tube journeys are down massively, but reductions in service (cause of which currently subject to a political spat) and reluctance of businesses to close if they think they can get away with it have meant some rush hour trains remain busy.


In Munich, there was a reduction in service, too, but they realized it was an error to cram the remaining commuters into fewer trains, so service is back to normal and people can spread out a bit more, fortunately.

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roddy

Ok, this is a surprise. There was word yesterday the UK was acquiring 3.5 million antibody test kits. Then today we get this which indicates there are millions more on the way, and we can get them via Amazon and in chemists, and they'll tell us very early on if we have it, or if we have had it.

 

This is, as the article says, a bit of a game-changer. Interestingly, they've bought millions of them and are going to check they work, which seems an odd order to do things in. I'm sure they have the receipt.

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