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Coronavirus - those in China, and general discussion


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mungouk
2 minutes ago, Dawei3 said:

Serbia & Hungary are giving Chinese vaccines to their populations, but these countries aren't part of the EU

 

Hungary has been a member of the EU since 2004; Serbia has been trying to apply for a while but is still in the queue.

 

Orbán (Hungary) goes ahead and does whatever he likes, as seems to be the vogue in certain places these days.  Regardless of his (or your) politics, you can see why national leaders would prioritise their own citizens over EU unity. 

 

Interesting to see how former Soviet countries are connecting with Russia and China on this issue... "Vaccine Diplomacy" is definitely happening.

 

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mungouk
11 minutes ago, Dawei3 said:

In the studies of the Pfizer & Modern vaccines, more than 33% of participants receiving the placebo reported adverse reactions (and they just got placebos). 


Hang on, how does that even work (considering that nobody understands the placebo effect)...?

33% of people getting a jab of saline solution (or maybe meningitis vaccine — is that really a placebo?) in the upper arm report that they had a sore arm, or what?

 

 

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xinoxanu
24 minutes ago, mungouk said:

Hang on, how does that even work (considering that nobody understands the placebo effect)...?

33% of people getting a jab of saline solution (or maybe meningitis vaccine — is that really a placebo?) in the upper arm report that they had a sore arm, or what?

 

  1. A Psychogenic/Psychosomatic reaction.
  2. An actual physical reaction to being stabbed by a needle.
  3. A random coincidence (which is not so random after all).
  4. Lying.
  5. Bad/insufficient data or difficult to contrast.
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xinoxanu
realmayo
20 hours ago, Dawei3 said:

The NYT notes "Last week, Sinopharm’s chairman, Liu Jingzhen, announced that some 100,000 people have taken the company’s vaccine and none have shown any adverse reactions so far."  Zero adverse reactions.  Zero.  This just doesn't happen.  In the studies of the Pfizer & Modern vaccines, more than 33% of participants receiving the placebo reported adverse reactions (and they just got placebos).  To achieve zero adverse actions, Sinopharm must have done close to zero surveillance of those receiving the vaccines. 

 

At first glance this looks like sloppiness, though whether you blame the NYT or the Sinopharm chairman I don't know. All the press releases in English from that time say they reported no serious adverse reactions. Watching an edited video of the guy speaking, first he says there were 没有任何副反应, later he says there were 没有一列严重的不良反应。

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Dawei3
On 3/23/2021 at 1:11 PM, mungouk said:

33% of people getting a jab of saline solution (or maybe meningitis vaccine — is that really a placebo?) in the upper arm report that they had a sore arm, or what?

The placebo would have been just saline.  This is from Pfizer's Dec 10, 2020 presentation to FDA on their vaccine:  Vaccines and Related Biological Products Advisory Committee December 10, 2020 Presentation - BNT162b2 Vaccine Candidate Against COVID-19   p.29:

image.thumb.png.f703814c010641100877f17b0b98196e.png

 

Notably, placebo side effects such as fatigue, headache and chills were much more strongly imagined in 16-55 year old groups than in 55-85 year old groups (I would have guessed the latter group would have reported much more fatigue and headache and I would have guessed wrong).   This was from a huge study.  

 

How does it happen?  Pfizer would have informed all study participants of the potential side effects of the vaccine, such as fatigue, headache, chills, etc.  Participants didn't know whether they got the vaccine or placebo.  Younger people must have been more susceptible to the power of suggestion.  A similar finding occurred in the Moderna study.

The full documents are here:

https://www.fda.gov/advisory-committees/advisory-committee-calendar/vaccines-and-related-biological-products-advisory-committee-december-10-2020-meeting-announcement

 

 

On 3/24/2021 at 10:02 AM, realmayo said:

没有任何副反应, later he says there were 没有一列严重的不良反应。

Thanks!  It illustrates the importance of being careful with words.  

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mungouk

Foreigners in Shanghai and Beijing are now being officially offered COVID jabs (Chinese vaccines only), at around 100 RMB a time.

 

How Foreigners in Beijing Can Get Vaccinated: Step-by-Step

https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/5b9zTVY5UYySg0NDIqfgog

 

Covid Vaccination Registration Now Open, Spaces Filling Up Quickly.

https://www.smartshanghai.com/articles/activities/covid-vaccination-registration-now-open-spaces-filling-up-qr-code-inside

 

update: According to the comments section on this Expat Focus post, foreigners have also been getting vaccinated in Wuhan, Kunshan, Nanning, Xiangtan, Chengdu, Hangzhou, Chongqing and Harbin, although some of these could be priority groups who were booked in by their employer. 

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