HSK 3.0 ... new, new HSK?

[大块头]

On 5/20/2022 at 6:49 PM, becky82 said:

She doesn't mention handwriting, despite it being prominent in the new standards (I don't know what this implies---it may be related to the pandemic, or perhaps there is a separate, handwritten exam [although, in total, she says need to write 1200 characters]). 

 

I really do hope that the handwriting standards do somehow make their way into the new exams, if only to reduce the amount of people rationalizing character illiteracy on Reddit and elsewhere... 

 

If they really must continue offering separate paper-based and computer-based tests then the score report should say which exam was taken. The former is much more difficult than the latter! I definitely wouldn't have passed the HSK 6 back in 2016 if I had to handwrite my answers.

[shawky.nasr]

Generate srt, just open file with VLC or Movist pro.

 

Any mistake, easy to open srt by txt editor.

hsk 3.srt

[Weyland]

On 5/21/2022 at 5:04 PM, 大块头 said:

if only to reduce the amount of people rationalizing character illiteracy on Reddit and elsewhere

 

These are the same people that are asking for book (actual novel, not graded readers) recommendations at HSK1 & 2 and then giving you an attitude when you point out that there is nothing for that level that isn't literally a toddler's picture book. Some of these people are incorrigible.

[becky82]

Do we know anything about 超纲词 (vocabulary outside the HSK curriculum) appearing on HSK 3.0 exams?  I didn't see it mentioned in the new standards  Post-reform HSK6 is listed as having 5456 words covering 1800 characters.  If the exam were restricted to these words, it'd be so much easier.

[shawky.nasr]

There are new dictionary for HSK 3.0, here a few pages:

(纠正）HSK NEW词典_12.pdf

[叫我小山]

I scrapped my old Anki deck and learnt all the new HSK 1-6 vocabulary, but do you think I should add the rest of the old (2010) HSK words that were taken out? I think there’s like 500 words there. If I continue on to the 7-9 levels do you think all 2010 HSK vocabulary would be contained in it? If any words aren’t contained in it they must not be worth learning, right?

[realmayo]

I would be surprised if there were any words in any 2010 HSK list that aren't worth learning.

[Weyland]

On 5/25/2022 at 5:23 AM, shawky.nasr said:

There are new dictionary for HSK 3.0, here a few pages:

 

Might as well include the link to buy it

 

On 5/27/2022 at 5:31 PM, realmayo said:

I would be surprised if there were any words in any 2010 HSK list that aren't worth learning

 

Words based around outdated technology (e.g. fax machine/phone booth) as well as outdated pronunciations of certain words can be done away with.

[realmayo]

I don't think I'd tell someone studying English "don't worry about this word 'fax machine', you'll never see it". But sure, I'd remove it from a list of vocab required to pass a fairly simple exam.

[becky82]

Curiously, I've seen "fax machine" 传真 be used many times in the context of describing how obsolete the word 传真 is.  In any case, it's both part of the HSK 2.0 and HSK 3.0 (page 77 of the standards (pdf); level 5, word 135).

 

My experience with the HSK6 is that it's more effort to single out the ~5 words that are debatably obsolete, than it is to learn them.

[becky82]

It seems there are, like, 5 chengyu in the HSK3.0 vocabulary levels 1-6 (which is strikingly different to HSK 2.0's 111 chengyu).  (And those 5 are debatable.)  Here are the HSK 3.0 4-character vocabulary items (assuming I haven't missed any):

 

Quote

不好意思 (HSK3.0, level 2, item 36, p.42)
公共汽车 (HSK3.0, level 2, item 188, p.44)
一路平安 (HSK3.0, level 2, item 650, p.50)
一路顺风 (HSK3.0, level 2, item 651, p.50)
电子邮件 (HSK3.0, level 3, item 152, p.53)
高速公路 (HSK3.0, level 3, item 225, p.54)
另一方面 (HSK3.0, level 3, item 460, p.57)
中华民族 (HSK3.0, level 3, item 928, p.63)
五颜六色 (HSK3.0, level 4, item 771, p.73)
一般来说 (HSK3.0, level 4, item 878, p.74)
酸甜苦辣 (HSK3.0, level 5, item 729, p.84)
不怎么样 (HSK3.0, level 6, item 72, p.89)
绝大多数 (HSK3.0, level 6, item 489, p.94)
西班牙语 (HSK3.0, level 6, item 870, p.99)
一模一样 (HSK3.0, level 6, item 958, p.100)
意想不到 (HSK3.0, level 6, item 966, p.100)
这就是说 (HSK3.0, level 6, item 1054, p.101)
自言自语 (HSK3.0, level 6, item 1115, p.101)

 

It's another sign that post-reform HSK6 might be substantially easier than pre-reform HSK6.  (There are many chengyu in HSK 3.0 levels 7-9.)

 

Edit: there's over 400 chengyu for levels 7-9; I listed them here.

[shawky.nasr]

On 5/30/2022 at 5:22 PM, becky82 said:

5 chengyu in the HSK3.0 vocabulary levels 1-6

 

7 not 5

They think 初中级 levels don't need know idioms.

 

[sandy65]

Hi,

In the Description section of the Standard, the terms "成段表达" and "语篇表达" were mentioned several times.

 

中等
能够就日常生活、工作、职业、社会文化等领域的较为复杂的话题进行基本的成段表达。

 

说 Level 4
具备初步的成段表达能力，能够使用一些比较复杂的句式叙述事件发展、描述较为复杂的情景、简要陈述观点和表达感情，进行一般性交谈，表达比较流利， 用词比较准确。

 

说 Level 5
具备基本的成段表达能力，能够使用比较复杂的句式进行交谈，较为详细地描述事件，完整地发表个人意见，连贯表达较为复杂的思想感情，用词恰当，具有一定的逻辑性。

 

说 Level 6
具备一般的成段表达能力，能够准确使用复杂的句式详细描述事件和场景，进行较为流利的讨论和简单的协商，较充分地表达个人见解和思想感情，表达顺畅，用词丰富，基本得体，逻辑性较强。

 

说 Level 7
具备初步的语篇表达能力，能够灵活使用复杂的句式表达个人见解，进行讨论或辩论，内容较为充实，表达流畅，语句连贯，逻辑性强。

 

说 Level 8
具备较好的语篇表达能力和灵活运用语言的能力。

 

说 Level 9
具备良好的语篇表达能力和灵活运用语言的能力。

 

So those terms related to speaking ability and “语篇表达”  is higher ability than “成段表达”.

 

I checked google, someone translate “语篇表达” as “discourse expression”. Based on collinsdictionary.com, “In linguistics, discourse is natural spoken or written language in context, especially when complete texts are being considered”

Anyone knows what both terms really mean and differences between the two?

Thanks. ?
 

[becky82]

I whipped up some HSK 3.0 vocabulary lists for people like me who like to print out vocabulary lists and put them on the wall, and mark them off one by one as a kind of progress indicator.

 

I tried to make it identical to The Standards, which implies there are some duplicate words (because The Standards has duplicates: (a) different parts of speech; (b) different levels; (c) different pronunciation).  I left off the handful of annotations and pinyin, and opted for the non-erhuayin variant (where relevant).  My experience is that you're better off only adding the pinyin you need.

 

I tried my best not to make any mistakes, but let me know and I can debug.  (I plan to use the level 7 pdf myself---the others I made in passing.)  It should be relatively easy to find bugs (if any) since you can just check it against The Standards.

 

HSK3.0_level1.pdf HSK3.0_level2.pdf HSK3.0_level3.pdf   HSK3.0_level4.pdf HSK3.0_level5.pdf HSK3.0_level6.pdf HSK3.0_level7.pdf

[becky82]

There's a series of online lectures discussing the HSK 3.0 here.  I watched most of the videos, and I'll let you know what I encountered that's particularly relevant for students (most of it is for teachers).  Probably the most relevant is this:

 

 

This is a screenshot from one of them (黄蕾 at about 11 minutes), giving the details of how the HSK 3.0 levels 7-9 breaks into 12 sections.

 

Quote

第一部分：以听为主 (listening)
一（10）：听新闻判断对错 (listen to news, judge correctness)
二（12）：听对话回答问题 (listen to dialogue, answer questions)
三（18）：听材料回答问题 (listen to materials, answer questions)
第一部分：以读为主 (reading)
四（28）：客观题阅读 (objective question reading)
五（7）：主观题阅读 (subjective question reading)
六（5）：排序 (arrange in order)
第一部分：以写为主 (writing)
七（2）：要点摘录+材料作文 (write the important points + materials writing)
八（1）：笔译 (hand translation)
第一部分：以说为主 (speaking)
九（2）：口译 (oral translation)
十（1）：应用读说 (applied reading and speaking)
十一（3）：听说 (listening and speaking)
十二（1）：主题发言 (give a speech on a theme)

 

 

She says levels 1-6 is going to remain unchanged until levels 7-9 are stably implemented:

She also adds that the levels 1-6 will not be changed from top to bottom, as the current satisfies already satisfies most requirements.

 

The video by 胡自远 mentions new dictionaries (国际中文学习词典):

 

 

I've seen the first one (初级) for sale, but not the others (中级 and 高级).  He mentions the HSK7-9 will be launched around the end of this year (2022).

 

Multiple videos emphasized learning Chinese culture as part of learning the Chinese language.

[黄有光]

On 5/23/2022 at 2:23 AM, Weyland said:

These are the same people that are asking for book (actual novel, not graded readers) recommendations at HSK1 & 2 and then giving you an attitude when you point out that there is nothing for that level that isn't literally a toddler's picture book

Omg do people actually do this???

[becky82]

There's a new paper 《国际中文教育中文水平等级标准》的中国特色和解读应用 by 刘英林, 李佩泽, and 李亚男.  I downloaded it and checked out what it says.  Most of the paper is a whole lot of design decisions (and we already know the outcome: the Standards), some historical background, and various fluff.  The most relevant parts are:

 

Quote

初等水平也称为普及化水平……

 

This says the elementary level is also called the "popularization level" or something like that.  I'm not quite sure what this implies.

 

Quote

 

This table gives the proportions of syllables to hanzi, and characters to words.  They say achieving these proportions is one of the motivations behind the HSK 3.0.

 

But probably the most interesting part is this:

 

Quote

它有两个重要标志：一是建立现代汉语规范口语主导型的新型等级标准，以词语的通用性作为最重要的标准——初等水平和中等水平略倾向于普通话口语，高等水平略倾向于普通话书面语。

Google Translate: It has two important signs: one is to establish a new type of grading standard of the normative oral-dominant type of modern Chinese, with the versatility of words as the most important standard - the elementary level and the intermediate level are slightly inclined to spoken Mandarin, and the advanced level is slightly inclined to Putonghua written language.

 

This says the HSK 3.0 levels 1-6 will lean towards oral Chinese, whereas levels 7-9 will lean towards written Chinese.

[jannesan]

On 7/19/2022 at 10:14 AM, becky82 said:

This says the HSK 3.0 levels 1-6 will lean towards oral Chinese, whereas levels 7-9 will lean towards written Chinese.

 

Do HSK 5 and 6 count as 中级 in the new HSK? 

[大块头]

On 7/19/2022 at 9:33 AM, jannesan said:

Do HSK 5 and 6 count as 中级 in the new HSK? 

 

yes

[becky82]

At this stage we don't know for sure if the HSK 3.0 level 6 will be easier or harder than the current HSK 2.0 level 6.  (Although we know it won't change this year at least.)

 

It might be easier:

• It's going to be classified as "intermediate", and it'll no longer be the highest level (since there will be HSK 7-9 serving that purpose);
• There is a significant drop (from 2663 to 1800 [difference 863]) in the number of characters---that's a huge difference;
• There's almost no chengyu in the HSK 3.0 level 6 vocabulary (unlike HSK 2.0 level 6);
• The HSK 3.0 vocabulary items overlap significantly, e.g., the HSK 3.0 has separate words 东, 南, 西, 北, 东南, 东北, 西南, 西北, 东边, 南边, 西边, 北边, 东方, 南方, 西方, 北方, 东部, 南部, 西部, 北部 (20 words) whereas HSK 2.0 only has 东, 南, 西, 北方 (4 words);
• Some of the HSK 3.0 vocabulary items occur multiple times because of multiple meanings or pronunciations;
• The above paper indicates it's geared slightly towards oral Chinese, which I guess implies fewer technical terms.

It might be harder:

• There are more words (around 500);
• There are new aspects: translation, speaking, and handwriting.

Thus, my guess is that the HSK 3.0 level 6 is going to be easier than HSK 2.0 level 6 overall.