Simple usage of attributive "的” - Quick Question

[SPMM]

Hello there, 

I'm a beginner learner 

 

Just had a simple question on when to use "De" and when to omit based of this example I have. 

 

Say you are on a plane and wanted to comment on the amount of people on the plane. 

 

1) 飞机上人很多

2) 飞机上的人很多

3) 上飞机的人很多

 

My first instinct is to use the third one. I realize the second one is probably grammatically incorrect, and the first one is the example from a textbook. 

Just wanted some opinions from native and learned speakers which one they would naturally use. 

 

Thank you 

 

[edelweis]

These are 3 different grammatical structures.

 

1) 飞机上人很多

Place + subject + adjective.

 

2) 飞机上的人很多

Subject + adjective. (and the subject is described as "being on the plane").

It does feel a bit incomplete. This would be better used at the start of a complex sentence rather that just 很多.

 

3) 上飞机的人很多

Many people boarded the plane.

(the people who boarded the plane are many)

Subject + adjective. (and the subject is described as "having boarded the plane").

[Publius]

1) 飞机上人很多 is the most natural one.

 

Bear in mind that Chinese is a topic-prominent language.

 

Topic: 飞机上

Comment: 人很多 (recursively, 人 = topic, 很多 = comment)

 

This sentence structure is extremely common and there is no need for a 的.

 

2) 飞机上的人很多 is not strictly speaking wrong. It just feels imbalanced, as edelweis correctly pointed out.

 

Topic: 飞机上的人

Comment: 很多

 

Aside from syntactic rules, there are also prosodic constraints in a language (such as where to insert "-fucking-" into a polysyllabic word), and Chinese happens to be quite particular in this regard (for example, you can't use -地 with monosyllables like you would use -ly in English). This sentence is unnecessarily top-heavy, and we don't like that. (It's perfectly okay if the sentence is 飞机上的人都睡着了.)

 

3) 上飞机的人很多 does not exactly convey the meaning you intended. You introduced a verb, and verbs do not have tenses in Chinese, so it's open to interpretation according to context. My interpretation could be "Many people are boarding the plane right now", which says nothing about the people already onboard. This 的 is obligatory. It turns a verbal phrase 上飞机 into an adjectival phrase (relative clause). -- It's not that 上飞机 cannot serve as a topic ("As for boarding a plane..."). It's just that as a comment, 人很多 would be a non sequitur.

[fenggz]

今天的地得拖了。