Smiling more when speaking

[suMMit]

Kind of a weird question, but how can I smile more when speaking Chinese?

 

My wife mentioned, while I've Been making speaking practice videos, that I don't smile when speaking Chinese. I agree with her and I'm probably am the same when speaking face to face, especially with people I don't know. I guess it's because it takes all my concentration on the language, I'm not thinking about smiling. Any ideas?

[Moshen]

Do you always smile when speaking English?  If not, then don't worry about smiling when speaking Chinese.  Be yourself.  That has a much better impact on others than a fake or forced smile.

[abcdefg]

I agree with @Moshenabove. I would feel like a fool (and look like a fool) if I tried to smile too much in conversation. My lack of a smile is not due to intense concentration on the intricacies of the language. But, after all, I'm not a salesman or a TV presenter. I'm not a politician. Maybe if I had a lobotomy I would smile all the time.

[matteo]

I also think that the less control you have over the language, the less ability to express intricacies and shades of meaning, the more you have to make up for it with body language and facial expressions. 

It is true that you don't have to, but unlike when you are speaking in your native language, the chances of being perceived as rude and unfriendly are higher depending on your mastery of the language. 

You might very easily say something that is too direct or downright rude (still happens to me when speaking english) and a smile is the best way to make sure people know you don't mean to be aggressive and that you want to establish a friendly relationship (unless you don't want to of course...)

[markhavemann]

In a book about classical guitar whose (which's?) name I can't remember, the author talks about "sympathetic tension". It's when your muscles that aren't related to an activity that you're learning, tense up to try and "help" the muscles that are. 

 

This is probably something similar, and you'll definitely loosen up and become more natural (which includes facial expressions) as you get better and more aspects of speaking become automatic.

 

For guitar they recommended breaking down practice into the smallest unit possible, as well as slowing down to reduce tension and make better progress. I'm not sure what the parallels are but maybe you could do some specific pronunciation drills before as a warm-up, to get yourself primed and more relaxed for general speaking. Or try to isolate the parts of speaking that you have the most trouble with (some grammar points? a particular aspect of pronunciation? vocabulary?) and work on those separately.

[Ledu]

Why not speak Chinese like Clint Eastwood? Or if you prefer Jason Statham.

 

The face could just be a mask with no relation to what is inside. I don’t want to take your smile away, but just to appreciate that other cultures have different cultural values- East vs West. When in Rome do as the Romans do. I think you may consider smiling less. 

[realmayo]

Definitely normal for some people including myself to look super-serious when concentrating on getting foreign words to come out of your mouth right. Following identical advice - try smiling when you talk to a stranger - I instantly got a warmer response.

Thoughts:

1. I'm sure you know you're actually supposed to squeeze your lips into something close to a smile when making certain Chinese sounds

2. Doing so has the bonus effect of making your voice sound more animated and lively

3. I think smiling will make your eyes seem more sparkling and friendly too

4. East Asians generally ignore the mouth for visual clues about the speakers mood and focus only on brow, eyes and nose area, unlike Westerners who focus them all

5. After a certain age I think foreign men in China typically have to inject an extra bit of cheer into their demeanor when talking to most strangers who don't normally have much interaction with people like us.

[abcdefg]

On 6/5/2023 at 10:23 AM, realmayo said:

4. East Asians generally ignore the mouth for visual clues about the speakers mood and focus only on brow, eyes and nose area, unlike Westerners who focus them all

Interesting. I didn't realize that. 

[realmayo]

I had assumed years ago that the "inscrutable oriental" stereotype was a myth but it appears to have scientific backing.

Left is heatmap of where a Western Caucasian's eyes will focus when looking at a face to read its emotions; right is the same for East Asians.

According to this: https://www.cell.com/current-biology/pdf/S0960-9822(09)01477-8.pdf

 

The implication is that if people you grow up with aren't using their mouth to communicate emotions then you (a) won't use your mouth to communicate emotions, and (b) won't waste time looking at mouths when wanting to discern others' emotions.

 

Quote

Eastern observers use a culture-specific de-coding strategy that is inadequate to reliably distinguish universal facial expressions of ‘‘fear’’ and ‘‘disgust.’’ Rather than distributing their fixations evenly across the face as Westerners do, Eastern observers persistently fixate the eye region. Using a model information sampler, we demonstrate that by persistently fixating the eyes, Eastern observers sample ambiguous information, thus causing significant confusion.

 

... which is quite a bold suggestion because it suggests that East Asians are at some kind of disadvantage (unless it isn't a disadvantage) in being not well able to distinguish between fear and disgust.

 

 

[Tomsima]

Another element worth considering is the traditional value of showing teeth as being rude in many Asian cultures. From my experience this stands true in China, many people smiling with lips together, or else covering their mouth with their hand when teeth are showing. This would be in contrast to the classic 'cheese' smile that I do when I'm chatting in English. I actually continue to smile this way in most situations when I'm speaking Chinese, but that's because as others have said, I feel like its more important to relax and do what feels natural for you. Of course, its important to also be aware of the difference in how such behaviour might be perceived by different audiences in different cultural contexts and make adjustments accordingly.

[abcdefg]

On 6/9/2023 at 3:05 PM, Tomsima said:

From my experience this stands true in China, many people smiling with lips together, or else covering their mouth with their hand when teeth are showing.

Agree. This was very striking when I first moved to China. Especially noticeable with well-mannered young ladies who were conscious of being polite. A laugh was OK, but one hand always went up to cover the teeth. I don't know if Mom instilled that behavior at an early age, or they just picked it up by observing role models and peers. 

[TheBigZaboon]

Facial expression, body language, and conversational propriety can be very different in different cultures and contexts. It used to be the norm in several Asian  societies to smile when embarrassed or when reporting bad news. Many times in the distant past, I've had to intervene to prevent an altercation when a disappointed or dissatisfied foreigner complained, "Why's that little bastard laffin' at me?... The "little bastard" was, in fact, just being polite as current etiquette demanded, even though, while trying to be polite, both parties were failing to properly communicate with the other.

 

Another example might be the little "bobble" of the head you see among some Indians when speaking to other Indians of a certain social rank or caste. Indian society has long, long been sophisticated enough to avoid this behavior when speaking to Westerners, but it can often provide a chuckle when encountered for the first time.

 

Another "be careful" applies to gestures. Pointing out a direction or an example with your index finger can land you in the soup. In Southeast Asia, a lady gestures (gracefully) with an open hand, all fingers extended and together. A gentleman wraps his fingers into a little fist, with his thumb outside of the fingers, extended alongside the big knuckle of the index finger. Then, as awkward as it sounds, points out the object or direction with the thumb, never with the index finger.

 

A big, broad Western-style grin might not convey to your conversational partner what you think it conveys. When different age groups are involved, it might be seen as a sign of disrespect. Age still has its privileges in Asian societies. Or it might make the other person think that, as they say in Texas, you're " all hat, and no cattle. "

 

So I guess what I'm saying is be careful about how you approach this issue. It seems to be amenable to simple solutions, but it's not. A smile is not always your umbrella. Many Asians are more familiar with you than you are with them, even if only because you make the movies they want to watch. But it's still possible to step on sensitive toes. Don't go overboard...

 

Just sayin' (with a smile (or an evil grin))...

 

TBZ

[realmayo]

On 6/10/2023 at 7:09 AM, TheBigZaboon said:

Many Asians are more familiar with you than you are with them, even if only because you make the movies they want to watch

 

I'm now starting to wonder whether Chinese people typically expect westerners to smile more and therefore worry when they don't. A bit like, if most of the foreigners you ever met as a waiter would give you a thumbs up sign when you brought their food, you might assume that anyone who didn't give you the thumbs up sign was annoyed.

 

I vaguely remember the beginning of a book about China where the author, flying into Beijing for the first time, asks the Chinese woman sat next to him if it's true that Chinese people think Westerners smell a lot. She giggles and says it's true, they smell a lot. Really? Yes, she says. Even me he asks? Yes, especially you! Eventually he realised she was mishearing "smile" for "smell".

[TheBigZaboon]

He HOPES she was mishearing... The Japanese have a phrase for someone who is too fond of acting like a Westerner : "batta-kusai"... "Batta" stands for butter, and "kusai" means stink or stinks like...

 

TBZ

[realmayo]

I always feel sorry for Japanese rugby players in the scrum against foreign teams....

[Lu]

On 6/9/2023 at 7:56 PM, realmayo said:

I had assumed years ago that the "inscrutable oriental" stereotype was a myth but it appears to have scientific backing.

A Japanese friend in Taipei once told me that Japanese are taught to hide their emotions and keep their face neutral, and as a result they get very good at reading very subtle expressions (because the expressions are almost always very subtle). He said that the faces of people like me were so very easy to read, because our expressions are not subtle at all but more expressive. The reverse is true as well, it seems to me: in Western Europe or the US we are not told to keep our expression neutral, so we don't have much need to get very good at reading very subtle facial expressions, and as a result Japanese people are hard for us to read. And then you have the 'inscrutable oriental'.

 

As to @suMMit's original question, I'm afraid I don't have specific advise, but would it help to just consciously smile before starting to say something? Practice what you want to learn, so to speak. It makes for yet another thing to think about, on top of all the things you need to think about when speaking Chinese, but still.

[Flickserve]

On 6/10/2023 at 4:05 AM, Tomsima said:

the traditional value of showing teeth as being rude in many Asian cultures. From my experience this stands true in China, many people smiling with lips together, or else covering their mouth with their hand when teeth are showing.

I never realised - I thought it was because of irregular dentition that has not had orthodontic treatment. People would be embarrassed about showing their teeth hence covering up. 

[Flickserve]

Do Chinese people smile much when they speak English as a second language? 

[abcdefg]

On 7/1/2023 at 1:17 PM, Flickserve said:

I never realised - I thought it was because of irregular dentition that has not had orthodontic treatment. People would be embarrassed about showing their teeth hence covering up. 

 

That's what I always thought too. Plus, with image-conscious young women, I thought it was something of an affectation, just being excessively modest and coy. 

[Lu]

It's definitely coyness/politeness. The Taiwanese government once (in 2007 or thereabouts) had a campaign saying, basically: Girls, it's okay to laugh out loud! Boys, it's okay to cry!