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otosan okasan 老头子,老妈子?& Chinese Honorifics


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I read somewhere the Japanese yes "hai" comes from Cantonese hai 系 (to be, it is, yes)? Is this just speculation or true? Because I do remember reading that schools in Japan during the early 20th century had to teach students to say "hai" instead of more common usages of "sou" and "eh".

The Shanghainese yes is also really similar to the Cantonese and Japanese, there are two in Shanghainese: 哎 "ei" [ej] and 咳 "rei" ("r" here is a breathy voiced h) [hej]. The latter is more emphatic.

"Ei" usage in Shanghainese:

A: 饭吃脱了伐? Vae chiethele va? (Have you eaten?)

B: 哎,吃脱了。 Ei, chiethele. (Yeah, I have eaten).

"Rei" usage:

A: 侬觉着饭难吃煞脱了是伐? Non koza vae naechiesathele zi va? (Do you think the food is really really bad?)

B: 咳,是个。 Rei, zi ge. (Yes! [god] i do [think so]).

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I read somewhere the Japanese yes "hai" comes from Cantonese hai 系 (to be, it is, yes)?

Maybe from old Chinese? In Japanese, the "a" in "hai" can be long or short depending on the situation, but in Cantonese, it can only be a short "a". If you want to drag the "hai" sound, you have to do it on the "i" part in Cantonese --- Japanese "haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaai" vs Cantonese "Haiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii"

饭吃脱了伐

is 脱 related to 咗 (Cantonese past tense)?

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脫 is more like a generic particle for Mandarin 完、好、掉、光. But it's also used in places where Mandarin does not use those particles. Like 伊死脫了 = Mandarin 他死了。 It's really hard to say what the 脫 actually is doing, because it comes pretty natural for me, 脫 is kind of like a combination of both completive and perfective aspects.

adjective/adverb root: 開心煞 kheisinsa = so/very happy.

阿拉白相了開心煞了 ala besianle kheisinsathele = we played very happily

阿拉白相了開心煞了 ala besianle kheisinsale = we were playing very happily

阿拉刚刚白相得來開心煞了 ala kankan besiantelei kheisinsathele = we had just been playing very happily

阿拉白相得來開心煞了 ala besiantelei kheisinsale = we have been playing very happily

阿拉開心煞得來个白相拉海 ala kheisinsateleige besianlahei = we are playing very happily.

But 開心 on its own, you can't add 脫 to it... so...the above nuiances become simplified:

阿拉白相了哈開心 ala besianle ha kheisin = we played very happily, we were playing very happily

阿拉白相得来哈開心 ala besiantelei ha kheisin = we have/had been playing very happily

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Maybe from old Chinese? In Japanese, the "a" in "hai" can be long or short depending on the situation, but in Cantonese, it can only be a short "a". If you want to drag the "hai" sound, you have to do it on the "i" part in Cantonese --- Japanese "haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaai" vs Cantonese "Haiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii"

Just on pronunciation, "Hai" (はい), IMHO, in Japanese is always short. Long and short vowel may have difference in meaning, e. g.: KOTO - "thing", "matter", (written as事 or こと) and KŌTO (written as コート) - "coat" or "tennis court" (borrowed word). Also AI can be said separately in a slow speach A-I unlike English - AI in "spy" but I think it's similar to Chinese dialects (the Japanese pronunciation of AI).

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In Wu dialects there is no [ai] sound; only [E] or [ej]. So in SHH: 三 sae [sE] and 赛 sei [sej].

When Beijing Mandarin was first introduced as 国语 during the Republican era, there was a local paper that wrote Beijing's pronunciation of 爱 was similar to a quick 啊意 in the local dialect (Shanghainese) and not 爱 (which was [ej] in SHH, similar to English "ay"). I found that really amusing. So we had a whole generation of Shanghainese people when they were speaking Mandarin either continuing to pronounce 爱 like English "ay" or trying to pronounce 爱 as 啊意 a-i. I think Korean doesn't have [ai] either.

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Just on pronunciation, "Hai" (はい), IMHO, in Japanese is always short. Long and short vowel may have difference in meaning, e. g.: KOTO - "thing", "matter", (written as事 or こと) and KŌTO (written as コート) - "coat" or "tennis court" (borrowed word). Also AI can be said separately in a slow speach A-I unlike English - AI in "spy" but I think it's similar to Chinese dialects (the Japanese pronunciation of AI).

That's true, but do you think it matters here atitarev? I don't think there is a word like haai in Japanese. But, if there was, I think context would clear it up, what do you guys think?

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