MSG in food

[pookie]

Hi Guys,

After reading http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/80-how-many-chinese-characters-are-there25

I had a thought about MSG. It is a common ingedient in UK Chinese take-away (take-out) meals. It's one of the reasons I don't buy Chinese take-away here. But after the reading the above forum I was horrifed to realise there's a very real possibility that it's used in China and Taiwan too. Actually it's a bit stupid to think that they wouldn't.

I guess my innocent mind was hoping that all food from these countries are pure and contain only the best and natural ingredients

Is MSG commonly added to food over there? I hope the answer will come back as a: not usually.

It get a headache and runny nose when I have MSG. How about you guys?

[xiaocai]

Actually MSG as an additive in food is a "pure natural" substance obtained from fermentation of wheat and soyabean, and it also presents in many protein rich food like mushroom, seaweed and fermented soy and dairy products. At least it could be more natural and harmless when compared to those artificial colouring agents and perservatives most of which are derivatives made from coal tar and petroluem.

[smalltownfart]

Umm, it is true that MSG is usually made from natural base ingredients like vegetable protein from wheat gluten but you have to consider what happens during the whole

process of making this product.

Here is a relevant excerpt from http://www.truthinlabeling.org/HowIsItManufactured.html you might want to think about :

By FDA definition, processed free glutamic acid (MSG) is "naturally occurring," because the basic ingredient is found in nature. "Naturally occurring" does not mean that a food additive is being used in its natural state. "Naturally occurring" only means that the food additive began with something found in nature. By FDA definition, the ingredient "monosodium glutamate" is natural. So is hydrochloric acid. So is arsenic. "Natural" doesn't mean "safe."

Don't you feel thirsty after consuming MSG?

Some people get more severe after-effects, like headaches. I know that not all MSG

is the same, some are better than others. For example, there are some soup bases

manufactured by Knorr that I sometimes use (who has the time to make 老火汤 these days?), that doesn't seem to give me any problems, but I try not to consume too much of it, bcos the MSG process produces known carcinogenic by-products ( see above link for more info).

[geraldc]

Here's a great article that takes a balanced look at MSG.

http://lifeandhealth.guardian.co.uk/food/story/0,,1614469,00.html

If you do think that MSG is bad for you then avoid it, if you've eaten it before with no harmful side effects, just carry on eating it.

Hong Kong and Japan are massive consumers of instant noodles and the instant soup bases for those are full of MSG, and yet both nations have very high life expectancy rates.

[smalltownfart]

Thx for the link to that interesting article.

I wouldn't base any conclusions on the consumption of instant noodles though. Instant noodles are a fairly recent product ( developed in 1958 ) and I don't think too many old timers would have consumed much of this in their lifetime.

To make a leap like that, I can also similarly point to the high incidence of colorectal cancer in Hong Kong (highest in "southeast" Asia), and try to make the connection to the MSG-infused diet but that would be wrong.

[Quest]

Is MSG commonly added to food over there? I hope the answer will come back as a: not usually.

Sorry to disappoint you, but I think the answer is more likely than not.

[xiaocai]

Pure natural doesn't mean safe. But the health concern of MSG is different from hydrochloric acid and arsenic since the latter two have already been proved to be harmful to your health in certain ways; however the adverse reactions of MSG is still debatable and there is no direrct evidence to support them. So I don't think it a good comparison.

Talking about the carcinogenic byproducts in MSG, first I don't think they are responsible to the socalled "Chinese restaurant syndrome"; second is that we are ingesting numerous carcinogens everyday so those presenting in MSG could be negligible.

And a interesting fact is that seems none of the Asian countries has this problem, so it could be an allergic reaction to MSG or the contamiants in it. Then this should not be relevant to those long term diseases.

[little_golden_panda]

Yup, MSG is used in ABUNDANCE in China.

I've eaten it all my life (I moved to UK when I was 6) and I have had zero side effects.

When, maybe 3yrs ago, I started hearing people say that MSG was to be avoided, I was like, "What? Why?!"

To me, it was like avoiding salt or sugar.

So why, exactly, is it bad?

[Yuchi]

I had a thought about MSG. It is a common ingedient in UK Chinese take-away (take-out) meals. It's one of the reasons I don't buy Chinese take-away here.

Chinese restaurants commonly get "no-msg" requests from customers, it's definitely no reason to avoid takeout

[adrianlondon]

Don't worry about MSG unless you're one of the very few people who react with it (headaches). Usually it's - oh what's the word - psychosomatic.

Treat it like salt. Too much salt is bad for you, but a small amount is fine and the food will taste bland without it. If you ask for your food to have no MSG, they'll just put more salt in, instead. Personally, I'd rather have half salt half MSG rather than extra salt, as salt is known to be bad for you in large quantities.

[Jo-Ann]

Chinese food always seems to get the brunt of the MSG question.

MSG has many forms and a google can give you tons of varied opinions on the subject. Here is just one:

http://www.rense.com/general35/hidd.htm

If you eat canned soup, cured meats, frozen dinners --- you are getting MSG.

Also -- you can ask for 'no MSG' when you order a Chinese dish, but altho they may not ADD any, it still could be in the jarred sauces they use in the dish.

[yorkie_bear]

I don't know how amenable restaurants in China would be to your request, but you could always try a

请别放味精

(qing3 bie2 fang4 wei4 jing1)

request

[Ian_Lee]

In overseas Chinese restaurants, MSG is a must. In Chinese restaurants in Hong Kong, the higher end the less MSG used, the lower end the more MSG used.

Why is MSG a must in overseas Chinese restaurants? Very simple.

Almost all the ingredients, i.e. chicken, pork,....are all frozen. Without MSG, the meat tastes bland (except beef which freeze does not affect its freshness. But in UK beef is seldom consumed due to MCD.)

In high end restaurants in Hong Kong, MSG is substituted by "High Broth" which the chef prepares by stewed chicken and Chinese ham as well as other ingredients. And of course high broth will not make you thirsty but MSG will.

But in comparison with Japanese and Korean foods, Chinese chef uses much less MSG.

You ever see how Kimchee is prepared? Those ladies sprinkle pounds and pounds of MSG on the Chinese cabbage leaf after leaf.

[amego]

They say eating too much MSG will make will go bald, haha but now it has been regarded as old wives' tales

"吃太多味精会掉头发的。"

[Volapuk49]

I am a practising physician and have long been interested in food reactions.

At one point MSG was actually banned as a food-additive in the US. This was based on scientific studies that demonstrated that MSG is not only carcinogenic but also adversely effects many users in more acute ways.

Via lobbying and political pressure the food industry got the ban reversed and it is now legal here.

Up until I was about 30 I never had a problem with MSG that I could tell. Since then I have become quite sensitive to it. Even eating food that has been stir-fried in a wok that had food containing it previously fried in the same wok will give me headaches, dizziness and in some cases I feel like I will vomit.

I have found a homeopathic remedy, Oscillococcinum, which is used to treat flu-symptoms which will relieve these symptoms. This is the only thing which works for me. Many of the symptoms are similar to a gastrointestinal flu. However, I would prefer not to have the symptoms to begin with.

I have encountered many patients with these symptoms. Locally, quite a few restaurants are banning MSG in all food. The national US food chain, Trader Joe's, which has several local supermarkets, will not carry any products with MSG. None of their soups, frozen dinners, and other products quoted by a previous post contain MSG. As more and more manufacturers get feedback from disappointed customers they, too, are banning MSG. The way things are going MSG, which is mainly produced in Asia and accounts for enormous profits in sales, will be found less and less in our foods locally. I believe that it will be banned from all foods sold in the US with the passage of time.

I realize that many people are not effected by MSG with these symptoms. I only wish you well. However, for many others it is a very real, physiologic problem. It is not psychosomatic as one person wrote. I hope that you never have to experience any of this. Incidentally, I did meet Chinese in Singapore who had these problems, too. It is not just a Western thing. The original term 'Chinese-restaurant syndrome' was coined by a Chinese physician in this country. He wrote an article about his own experiences in an American medical journal.

When I was in Singapore I found it in many foods.I had to be very careful where I ate. As one post explained it may also be in sauces, pre-prepared items such a soups and in woks that have not been well washed from previous use. So it is often not sufficient to ask that it be left out.

On a flight from India to Singapore on Silk Air, which is owned by Singapore Air, I ordered an Indian dish to avoid MSG. They had put it in the Indian food, as well! The food had been prepared in Singapore. I got so sick that I just curled into a ball at the back of the plane to be near the bathroom.

When I returned on Singapore Air to the US I specifically requested an MSG-free meal. It was delicious and I had no problems. The woman who processed my order told me that MSG is a very big problem for them and that many customers have been getting sick from their food ( which is usually very good).

[pookie]

After reading one post there may be another explanation - I am intollerant to wheat gluten, from which MSG originates as suggested here. However, I never get headches from eating bread or other gluten rich foods.

When I consume MSG - and instant noodles soup bases are a killer for me - my head feels like it's stuffed with cotton wool and the headaches are very bad. I will certainly ask for MSG free food next time I go out and will have to see what they say or even if the food they serve is really MSG free.

I do admit some people have no problems. I envy those people who can attack a cheap UK Chinese buffet without knowing they will be really ill afterwards. I miss those illuminous orange Sweet and sours, the bright yellow Chinese curry's and all the other 110% authentic - straight from China - dishes

[skylee]

I miss those illuminous orange Sweet and sours, the bright yellow Chinese curry's and all the other 110% authentic - straight from China - dishes

熒光橙、熒光黃

I've never thought of it as allergy but I would sometimes feel very very drowsy and even itchy after eating at certain restaurants. Sometimes I would be so drowsy that I couldn't even walk (happened after lunch one day last month when I was in Seoul).

[yonglin]

I find this topic quite interesting.

Personally, I fail to see how reactions to MSG are any different from reactions to peanuts or tomatoes or whatever some people suffer allergic reactions from. People with allergies usually avoid eating what they are allergic to, not request that the type of foodstuff they are allergic to be banned.

[Volapuk49]

Did you read that the last few people who posted want to ban MSG?

I didn't.

I get very sick from it. More and more restaurants are advertising that they don't use it in their food. Those restaurants get more business. As this trend spreads, which it is in the United States, MSG will disappear from foods more and more.

One of the largest food chains in the US, Trader Joe's, which stocks thousands of products, will not allow MSG in their stores let alone their products. This was a purely business decision. It has paid off tremendously.

At one point MSG was banned in the United States. This was for health reasons. The food industry overturned the ban.

I ask if a restaurant uses MSG. If they do, I turn around and leave. They understand why I leave. I go to their competitor who doesn't use it. I let them know I am patronizing them because they don't use it. I let the original restaurant know that if they don't use it I will become a customer.

It is not enough that they leave it out. It is in prepared sauces, condiments, and many foods especially from Asia.

Eventually, that, too shall change. It will not be because it is banned. It will be because enough people speak up and tell restaurant owners and food producers that we refuse to patronize them or their products as long as they continue to use MSG.

As the economy worsens and things get tougher many businesses will be more eager to please their customers. Those who love MSG will say nothing if it is left out. Those who get sick from it will make a lot of noise.

MSG is finished. It will eventually disappear. Then food can taste wonderful without such 'enhancers'.

[roddy]

When and why (specifically) was it banned in the US?