Ian_Lee Posted February 10, 2004 at 09:07 PM Report Share Posted February 10, 2004 at 09:07 PM I would say that the following Chinese compound words have deeper meaning than their English equivalence: (English) (Chinese) Accident -- Out of Expectation Irony -- Spear and Shield Crisis -- Danger and Opportunity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smithsgj Posted February 11, 2004 at 01:45 AM Report Share Posted February 11, 2004 at 01:45 AM You don't normally get exact semantic equivalence across languages. Thus, the meaning of apparently equivalent words and phrases is rarely exactly the same; the usage is almost always slightly different, and there are always cases where a different "equivalent" word would do the job better. But "deeper" meaning? I'm not sure I know what you mean by that. Yiwai may have a more fine-grained meaning than accident; the fact that there exists the almost synonymous shigu seem to back that up (both these words, perhaps, occupy more or less the same semantic space as accident). Do you mean "deeper" because of what the etymology may conjure up when the words are used? Like "oh no, something out of expectation has happened!" If so, I disagree. Yiwai describes pretty much the same event or phenomenon as accident, not other unexpected happenings. But anyway that would be be broader, not deeper. (I think weiji could be analysed as "potential for danger" don't you? And maodun is a totally frozen metaphor) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trooper Posted February 11, 2004 at 02:00 AM Report Share Posted February 11, 2004 at 02:00 AM I think Chinese is often more colourful than English but I'm not sure about it being deeper. "Mao dun", for example, doesn't convey the same range of meanings that "irony" covers in English. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roddy Posted February 11, 2004 at 02:07 AM Report Share Posted February 11, 2004 at 02:07 AM Irony -- Spear and Shield "Mao dun", for example, doesn't convey the same range of meanings that "irony" covers in English. Not so much 'deeper' as 'different', isn't it? Maodun is something along the lines of conflict / contradiction, while irony is 反话 or 讽刺. I can't think of any situations where you would translate irony to maodun or vice versa. Roddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trooper Posted February 11, 2004 at 02:29 AM Report Share Posted February 11, 2004 at 02:29 AM I think even 反话 and 讽刺 don't adequately translate "irony". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian_Lee Posted February 11, 2004 at 02:29 AM Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2004 at 02:29 AM "Mao Dun" -- "Spear and Shield" actually means more like a paradox than an irony in English. But I would say it is hard to find an English equivalence for this ancient Chinese word. Even though its meaning is hard to fathom, "Mao Dun" is easier to explain to kids than either irony or paradox. When I cited the phrase "use your spear to thwart at your own shield", my grade school daughter understood the compound word's meaning right away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trooper Posted February 11, 2004 at 02:37 AM Report Share Posted February 11, 2004 at 02:37 AM Doesn't it suggest contradiction? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roddy Posted February 11, 2004 at 02:39 AM Report Share Posted February 11, 2004 at 02:39 AM Irony -- Spear and Shield "Mao Dun" -- "Spear and Shield" actually means more like a paradox than an irony in English. Make up your mind, Ian - your shield is thwarting your spear. Roddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skylee Posted February 11, 2004 at 02:47 AM Report Share Posted February 11, 2004 at 02:47 AM 矛盾 = contradiction, conflict No??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian_Lee Posted February 11, 2004 at 03:00 AM Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2004 at 03:00 AM 矛盾 does not really mean a conflict if you mean a conflict between two parties. It refers more to a person's character or how a matter is handled or how a scenario is evolved. But 矛盾 sometimes can also carry the implication of irony or sarcasm if you are teasing at somebody. Is contradiction a proper equivalence of 矛盾? I ain't sure but I guess that may be what is stated in the dictionary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian_Lee Posted February 11, 2004 at 03:04 AM Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2004 at 03:04 AM For weiji, I think it should be elaborated as "danger and opportunity" rather than "potential for danger". Actually this compound word is often used in those brainstorming sessions held by the Japanese companies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roddy Posted February 11, 2004 at 03:14 AM Report Share Posted February 11, 2004 at 03:14 AM I guess that may be what is stated in the dictionary It is. I most often hear it in 社会矛盾, social contradictions, which I think is usually a nice way of saying 'people aren't happy about this'. Roddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian_Lee Posted February 11, 2004 at 03:30 AM Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2004 at 03:30 AM Roddy: 矛盾 can be interpreted as ironic in cases such as: (In Chinese) This guy is very 矛盾 that he claimed he prefers slim girl but he married a fat lady. (In English) It is ironic that he ................ (In such case "ironic" is a better choice than "contradictory") Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quest Posted February 11, 2004 at 05:32 AM Report Share Posted February 11, 2004 at 05:32 AM Roddy:矛盾 can be interpreted as ironic in cases such as: (In Chinese) This guy is very 矛盾 that he claimed he prefers slim girl but he married a fat lady. (In English) It is ironic that he ................ (In such case "ironic" is a better choice than "contradictory") I would prefer 讽刺。 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ax Posted February 11, 2004 at 06:17 AM Report Share Posted February 11, 2004 at 06:17 AM maodun is dillematic no? what does irony have to do with iron? ax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smithsgj Posted February 11, 2004 at 08:06 AM Report Share Posted February 11, 2004 at 08:06 AM > what does irony have to do with iron? not a lot: [French ironie, from Old French, from Latin rna, from Greek eirneia, feigned ignorance, from eirn, dissembler, probably from eirein, to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nnt Posted February 11, 2004 at 11:35 AM Report Share Posted February 11, 2004 at 11:35 AM "矛盾" is also a much used word in dialectics and marxism, and means "conflict" although always translated by "contradiction" in this sense (see "矛盾论"/ "On contradiction" by Mao Zedong) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ananda Posted March 13, 2004 at 01:47 PM Report Share Posted March 13, 2004 at 01:47 PM I think even 反话 and 讽刺 don't adequately translate "irony". how about "指桑骂槐" or "嘲弄"? what's the english's explaination of irony? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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