Are there any websites which explain when 了 and 着 can be included or omitted?

[anonymoose]

Do any of you know of good resources (preferably online) which explain how to use particles such as 了 and 着, not so much in terms of grammar, with which I'm already familiar (and is covered in most textbooks), but rather in terms of other factors, such as prosody, which determine when they should and shouldn't be used.

I found this phrase on a site: 喜欢着猫的人

I just wonder why 着 is included here when a google search shows many more hits when着 is omitted.

[skylee]

Think "I'm loving it" vs "I love it" ...

[anonymoose]

Think "I'm loving it" vs "I love it" ...

Right, but in spite of 麦当劳 using it as an adveritising slogan, I wouldn't say "I'm loving it" is particularly good English.

[谁翻乐府凄凉曲]

chinese native speakers say喜欢猫的人,they can't say喜欢着猫的人

[semantic nuance]

著 here indicates the progression of an action or continuation of state.

hope it helps!

[chenpv]

chinese native speakers say喜欢猫的人,they can't say喜欢着猫的人

Agree. '喜欢着猫' cannot be used as attributive.

I just wonder why 着 is included here when a google search shows many more hits when着 is omitted.

anonymoose, great to see that your sense of language is working.

[tanhql]

了 have a lot of use, like:

我不知不觉地喜了你

in this case, the 了 can be replaced, like:

我不知不觉地喜上你

very few people will say 喜欢着猫, unless 着 specifies a species of cat, which it does not.

good luck in finding out! 祝您好运！

[anonymoose]

Thanks for your replies.

OK, perhaps the original phrase that I quoted wasn't a good example, as it seems that it didn't constitute very good chinese.

Nevertheless, I would still be interested in any information on the use of particles (了, 着, etc.) beyond their grammatical function.

I remember I once wrote a short story in Chinese and asked a Chinese friend of mine to correct it for me. I had put 了 after the verbs in a series of sentences. She said, however, that in the final sentence, 了 is better at the end of the sentence rather than straight after the verb. The explanation was something along the lines of putting closure on the section of writing. I kind of understand the principle, but would appreciate a more concrete analysis of such uses of 了.

[HashiriKata]

She said, however, that in the final sentence, 了 is better at the end of the sentence rather than straight after the verb. The explanation was something along the lines of putting closure on the section of writing. I kind of understand the principle, but would appreciate a more concrete analysis of such uses of 了.

If I understand it correctly, what you're seeking is still within the realm of grammar. What your friend was trying to say is not just the position of 了 in the sentence but she seemed to suggest a different 了, the "modal 了", instead of the "aspect 了" you originally used. In your opening post you mentioned that you're familiar with the grammar of these, so if you can just try to gain a clear understanding of the difference between the two, you'll see more clearly what your Chinese friend was saying.

[anonymoose]

Hashiri, I might be wrong, but I don't think it was a difference between modal and aspect 了. I'll see if I can find the original of what I wrote (though it was about 3 years ago, so the chances aren't high).

[HashiriKata]

Ok, your friend may not have put it the way I did, but I'm confident that s/he was in the same direction with me, which is that you have to conclude a talk with the modal 了 (instead of the aspect 了), or the hearer/ reader may think that you haven't finished yet or that what you're saying is not complete. Did your friend say something along this line?

By the way, I've found in Yip Po-Ching (Chinese: a Comprehensive Grammar) a reference to 了 and 着 being used as rhythmic fillers. Though it's not extensively discussed, it may be worth a look (p. 321ff).