Do I have to learn by heart the tones?

[yinyang]

Is it so that the only way to really master/remember the tones is to learn by heart them?

[liuzhou]

Yes.

[yinyang]

THANKS!

[yinyang]

YES, you're right! I've read and read and read pinyin with tones but after a while I tend to forget them.

[kudra]

see the thread

http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/6539-how-could-i-get-better-at-tones

[dougdu]

Ni hao yinyang,

I too also had problems with my tones, but I have a solution to your problems. My Chinese teacher found a website with tones and how to pronouce them. She says it's all about Chinese Pronunciation on this website. You can listen to All Mandarin sounds (syllables) in the table. As it says, you can improve your Mandarin pronunciation. Enough talking for me, more studying for you: Hope it helps Yinyang

http://www.newconceptmandarin.com/support/Intro_Pinyin.asp

[BFC_Peter]

I agree that you have to learn everything 'by heart' (i.e. learn it to the point where you don't have to consciously think about it) - I don't think that the same learning system works for everyone (although I bet every system includes a very large does of repetition).

I learn vocab much faster if I hear the native speaker say the words to me and I am able to repeat in the same tone the way I have heard it

I find it incredibly difficult to pick up the sound/tone from listening to a native speaker, unless the speaker emphasises the sound/tone (as my Chinese teacher does when speaking in class).

So, I prefer to see the word written in pinyin - then I understand how to say the word.

I suppose both methods assume the learner is comfortable with actually saying the tones themselves, and in fact that took two/three months before I got that particular insight.

[snarfer]

I think practise reading aloud with a tutor is very important.

[HashiriKata]

http://www.newconceptmandarin.com/su...tro_Pinyin.asp

I wouldn't recommend anyone to use this site for practising their Chinese pronunciation. It's ok to speak Chinese with non-standard pronunciation but to teach it (to those who don't yet know the language!) as "standard" is completely unacceptable. What makes it worse here is the site is supposed to be the front face of a Mandarin language school .

Look at their teaching staff profile page and make your own conclusion (Of the 15 members featured, all are young ladies and there is not a single male representation, which looks a bit ( ) unbalanced) : http://www.newconceptmandarin.com/aboutus/team.asp

[Lu]

Without actually having listened to the pronounciation on the site: the staff being all female does not necessarily mean they aren't qualified. Of the 100+ teachers at the Mandarin Training Center of NTNU only about 3 are male, and that school is one of the best in Taiwan.

[wai ming]

I wouldn't recommend anyone to use this site for practising their Chinese pronunciation. It's ok to speak Chinese with non-standard pronunciation but to teach it (to those who don't yet know the language!) as "standard" is completely unacceptable. What makes it worse here is the site is supposed to be the front face of a Mandarin language school .

Look at their teaching staff profile page and make your own conclusion (Of the 15 members featured, all are young ladies and there is not a single male representation, which looks a bit ( ) unbalanced) : http://www.newconceptmandarin.com/aboutus/team.asp

Err... HashiriKata, maybe I'm missing something here, but how exactly did you come to the conclusion that they're teaching non-standard pronunciation? Granted, I didn't listen to all the syllables in that Pinyin table, but the ones I listened to sounded fine?

The only thing that struck me was that a lot of the teachers there seem to have qualifications in, or experience teaching, English.

[HashiriKata]

the staff being all female does not necessarily mean they aren't qualified.

No, I don't link sex to qualifications . I just noted that the male teachers there are conspicuous by their absence (and as a male student, I wouldn't want to be taught entirely by female teachers, just in case someone may make impropriate comments on the characteristics of my Chinese ).

how exactly did you come to the conclusion that they're teaching non-standard pronunciation? Granted, I didn't listen to all the syllables in that Pinyin table, but the ones I listened to sounded fine?

You should have tried a bit longer . Anyway, here are a few things you may be interested in:

1. All the /c/ sound almost like /t/: try listening to /cai1/cai2/cai3/cai4/can1/can2/can3/can4/...

2. Many /(_)in/ sound like /(_)ing/ : try listening to /min2/min3/qin2/qin3/qin4/xin2/xin3/xin4/...

3. The syllable /nao4/ sounds like /rao4/

4. Many /sh/ are un-distinguishable from /ch/: try /shi1/shi2/shi3/shi4/shu2/shu3/shu4/shuang1/shuang3/...

(Try listening also to: /chi1/chi2/chi3/chi4/).

5. Not only /c/ is like /t/ as mentioned in (1.) above, /xi1/xi2/xi3/xi4/ sound also like starting with /t/ instead of /x/.

6. In the majority of cases, /x/ becomes /q/. Eg: /xiu3/xiu4/ => /qiu3/qiu4/; /xuan2/xuan3/xuan4/ => /quan2/quan3/quan4/; /xue2/xue3/xue4/ => /que2/que3/que4/...

7. The sound /z/ is very unclear, in the following syllables in particular (which occasionally sounds like /r/): /zan1/zan2/zan3/zan4/.

From the examples above, note that I don't pick out regional or personal characteristics which don't effect understanding. Problems are only problems when one sound can be construed as another within the same system, as are the cases above.