Origin of the phrase "open yellow gun (开黄腔) "

[aprose1977]

I understand this means that somebody says something ridiculous or without grounds.  But why use this expression to denote this?  

[mouse]

I don't know the etymology of this phrase, but 腔 does not mean gun, it refers to the chest cavity. It then developed an extended meaning to refer to singing style, and then from there was extended to mean tone of voice. The latter is likely the meaning in this phrase.

 

This page says that the phrase comes from Sichuanese:

http://baike.baidu.com/item/开黄腔/6414188?fr=aladdin

I don't know Sichuanese, so I don't know what 黃 might mean in that language. 黃 of course can refer to sexual matters, but I doubt that's the meaning here.

 

There is a clue from the 漢語大詞典 . One entry for 黃 says that it is a dialect word that means "layman" (“意謂門外漢”). The usage example comes from Li Jieren, a native of Chengdu.

[WenLei-William]

In regards to mouse's answer, it in fact seems as though this phrase has origins in Chinese opera, which was used in particular to describe how an opera singer's tone of singing is off-key , and it evolved to mean saying something ridiculous or that is not based in fact/reality.

 

http://zhidao.baidu.com/link?url=nx4A3Cd8tUY4F9yGazdzRXH4UOcN1gWeQxM6huO1UZbyGSDn1hg3bDb_A__6ADQwL_fAABGlKpQ8N501BowUl_

 

The link above leads to an ask and question page in Chinese. By reading the 最佳答案 we can see that the phrase does have an origin in opera, however, the phrase listed is 荒腔 instead of 黄腔. The author of this answer goes on to state that 黄腔 is actually another way to say 荒腔.

 

Here is the 最佳答案 for those who don't wish to use the link:

 

来源于戏剧，
【荒腔】：亦作黄腔、黄调或凉调；京剧声乐名词。
指演员唱曲音调不准，习惯上专指略低于调门的变音。大部分都是由于演员先天生理条件所造成，如声带变异、耳音不准等。有时也由于练声不得法所致。
渐渐演化成信口雌黄，不着边际的乱说的意思

 

Through speculation, I personally would conclude that 黄 in 黄腔（荒腔）is a localized form (or bastardization) of 荒 in Sichuanese, particularly for this saying. Also, we can also add in the fact that 黄 has some negative meanings behind it in Chinese, so maybe the character 黄 acts as a way to make 荒腔（黄腔）have a more negative connotation than just plain 荒腔 (i.e. saying ridiculous things instead of just being off-key in opera).

 

Not being a native Sichuanese, or Chinese for that matter, my analysis is based totally off of internet-based research and speculation. Maybe it can help you a little in finding your answer.

[aprose1977]

Thank you very much for these detailed answers. I'm pursuing this with some Chinese teachers that I know so if I find anything more I'll post it here. 

[mouse]

 

 

Through speculation, I personally would conclude that 黄 in 黄腔（荒腔"alized form (or bastardization) of 荒 in Sichuanese, particularly for this saying. Also, we can also add in the fact that 黄 has some negative meanings behind it in Chinese, so maybe the character 黄 acts as a way to make 荒腔（黄腔）have a more negative connotation than just plain 荒腔 (i.e. saying ridiculous things instead of just being off-key in opera).

 

Yeah, this seems plausible. The use of 黄 for 荒 may also reflect the pronunciation or tone of 荒 in Sichuanese. However, it seems that 黃 is pronounced similarly in Sichuanese as it is in Mandarin (would like clarification of that though).

 

I had a look at a Sichuanese dictionary. The entry for 開黃腔 isn't very helpful, reading "（慣）說外行話" and provides no etymological info. The entry for 黃腔 reads: “（名）外行話”. There's also the word 黃腔頂板 which is defined: “形容場戲走板、不合強調：唱得～怪怪難聽“, which fits with your source from Zhidao (and the definition chimes with the phrase 荒腔走板, which means the same thing).