stapler Posted November 17, 2016 at 05:42 AM Report Share Posted November 17, 2016 at 05:42 AM I wrote "你們都被我打敗了準備好了嗎？" which completely confused a group of Chinese speakers. After asking around someone told me I should have wrote "你們都準備好被我打敗了嗎？". My problem is that I don't see how one of these word orders is correct and one is wrong. Both feel very right to me. Obviously I'm seriously wrong. Is anyone able to explain in grammatical terms why this word order is so incorrect that it is incomprehensible to native speakers? Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
889 Posted November 17, 2016 at 06:35 AM Report Share Posted November 17, 2016 at 06:35 AM Not that I can tell you why, but I agree the first version sets the mind spinning, while the second is pretty clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demonic_Duck Posted November 17, 2016 at 06:46 AM Report Share Posted November 17, 2016 at 06:46 AM 1. You have all been defeated by me are you ready? 2. Are you all ready to be defeated by me? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stapler Posted November 17, 2016 at 06:57 AM Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2016 at 06:57 AM Whenever I read the sentence I wrote I read "you (all) being defeated by me - are you ready?" - which sounds like good Chinese. Im not sure why I process it like this so I'm wondering if there's something specific (a grammar point) that I'm missing or confusing. - maybe the 都 is giving it a "past tense" feeling that is destroying comprehensibilty? Is 你们被我打败了， 准备好了吗？ okay？ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lips Posted November 17, 2016 at 08:26 AM Report Share Posted November 17, 2016 at 08:26 AM "you (all) being defeated by me - are you ready?" I don't even know what you *really* mean by this. I can guess, I supposed, but it is not grammatical. The first Chinese sentence does not have the emdash either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddyf Posted November 17, 2016 at 09:08 AM Report Share Posted November 17, 2016 at 09:08 AM It's just a fact about the usage of 准备 that the thing that you're preparing for comes afterwards in the sentence. Think of it like chronological order if it helps. I just think of it like a property of the word 准备 that I picked up from seeing it a bunch of times, but there's probably some deeper logic to it. The exception is if it's a topic-comment structure like “明天的比赛你准备好了吗？” That seems fine to me. But in your example, “你们都被我打败了” sounds like a complete sentence and not like a topic. And it leaves the remaining part of the sentence without a verb in a way that sounds awkward. Basically it sounds like you're saying that they already got defeated by you, and then tagging on a "ready?" question at the end in a grammatically awkward way which also doesn't make logical sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stapler Posted November 17, 2016 at 11:42 AM Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2016 at 11:42 AM Ahh I see. I didn't realise a topic couldn't be a complete sentence. Mayne I've been reading too much classical Chinese or something... Thank you everyone for your help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vellocet Posted November 17, 2016 at 04:27 PM Report Share Posted November 17, 2016 at 04:27 PM You have no chance to survive make your time. HAHAHAHAHA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
陳德聰 Posted November 17, 2016 at 07:40 PM Report Share Posted November 17, 2016 at 07:40 PM Honestly the part that made it make zero sense is mainly that 你們都被我打敗了 "you've all been defeated by me" describes a situation that already happened, and then you ask if they're ready for it now. 你們都要被我打敗了！準備好了嗎？ This makes more sense because them being defeated has not happened yet. So you can ask if they're ready for it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stapler Posted November 17, 2016 at 10:24 PM Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2016 at 10:24 PM Ahh thanks 陳德聰. When I was writing 你们都 I was thinking "you all" but here it just seems to read as 已經 (the 了 in there confirms this). Does having the 要 in there make that less the case? - does it change the meaning of the 都 from 已經 to 總括全部? Oh and how important as commas in these kind of sentences in general? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demonic_Duck Posted November 18, 2016 at 05:17 AM Report Share Posted November 18, 2016 at 05:17 AM 你被我打败了 also expresses a past event. Nothing to do with 都. The function of 了 in the amended sentence is what's different. “都” does sometimes have the meaning of “已经”, but in those cases it carries an undertone of surprise or exasperation. “都半夜了，你怎么还没睡觉呢？” 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolnicholas Posted November 18, 2016 at 11:56 AM Report Share Posted November 18, 2016 at 11:56 AM 已经被打败了就不需要再做准备了 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stapler Posted November 18, 2016 at 09:50 PM Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2016 at 09:50 PM Okay think I got it. Thanks everyone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and select your username and password later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.