Converting western brand names into Chinese (Sorry quite long)

JustJon · 27th May 2005, 10:56 AM

Hi everyone,

Firstly I'd like to appologise in advance for the long post you are hopefully about to read and also for posting something similar before. I've now done a bit more research and have a better understanding of exactly what I'm trying to ask.

I'm trying to convert a western brand name into Chinese and therefore making it more easily accepted in China. The name I'm trying to convert is lastminute.com I want it to appear as native and indigenous as possible.

I read that there are 2 popular ways of doing this, literally word for word which someone on another post has kindly suggested is 最后一分钟. The problem with this is I don't know what to do about the .com bit because it's actually part of the name as well as the URL. The second problem is I don't know whether some of the meaning of the brand / phrase will be lost if converted in this way. Do the Chinese use "last minute" as a popular phrase as it's used in English or is it just two words stuck together? Does it tend to mean disorganised rather than spontaneous?

The other way I've read is Transliteration (This seems like a better idea to me) as Coca-Cola have done with ke kou ke le which apparently means “to taste something palatable from which one derives pleasure.” As I understand it, you need to take the phonetic sounds of the name and then match Chinese characters to them, so when read in Chinese the converted name sounds similar if not the same as the original. Apparently the art to this is to pick Chinese characters that convey the meaning of the brand as done with Coca-Cola. The type of things I would like to convey in the converted name include:

Travel, Leisure, Fun, Spontaneity, Complete travel solutions, Journey, Relaxation, Living life for the moment, Throwing caution to the wind, Buying or doing something on impulse, taking care of people, guidance, tours, having a good life etc etc.

What I don't want to include is things like being disorganised or leaving things until the last minute and latter regretting it.

Do you think it is necessary to transliterate the name like this or would a literal conversion be better?
If transliteration would be better has anyone got any ideas?
If I go down this root I suppose I will also need to use a Pinyin conversion for the actual URL so it can be typed in?

Any help with this would be greatly appreciated as this has been going round in my mind for quite some time.

Sorry again for the long post.

Yang Rui · 28th May 2005, 02:39 AM

At the moment i can't think of anything that would satisfy your needs, but i'll keep thinking about it.

However, for the ".com" bit, i think you could just add the character 网 (wang3) at the end. This post might seem a bit lame as it doesn't really answer the question, but if you manage to think of a snappy name and then add wang at the end, that will get the "dotcom" idea across.

I'm also thinking the character 旅 could feature as it has the "l" sound of lastminute, and means travel.

Yang Rui · 28th May 2005, 05:27 AM

It will be difficult to fit all those other ideas that you have mentioned into a short and snappy name. Maybe you need to decide which one or two of these concepts is most important and concentrate on those. I'm not a native speaker, so at the risk of attracting ridicule, might i suggest

速游网 su4you2wang3: this would emphasise how quickly clients could book online and just go travelling。 Or maybe 速战旅游网 to emphasise quick and decisive.

易游网 yi4you2wang3: would emphasise ease and convenience of use

IMHO the name needs to be short otherwise it won't roll off the tongue. If you want to include the character 网 and thereby get across the dotcom idea, then you'll have to be very selective about the other characters and you'll only be able to get one or maximum two concepts across. You should also check your final choice with a native Chinese speaker to make sure it doesn't sound ridiculous. Hope this helps

csy · 28th May 2005, 11:27 AM

How about 及时网？

According to the dictionary I use, 及时 ji2shi2 means:

(1) [in time;at the right moment;be propitiously timed;in good time;forehanded]∶立刻;马上
工作中有问题必须及时解决
及时相遣日。——《玉台新咏·古诗为焦仲卿妻作》
(2) [forthwith;without delay;promptly]∶迅速地;毫不耽搁地
你应及时地动身回家

Caveat Emptor: I'm not a native speaker. Perhaps it's best to check with a professional Chinese trademarking company.

You may also like to be aware that there're a number of Chinese internet hotel and flight booking companies that do a good job with last minute reservations:

http://www.ctrip.com
http://www.elong.com/

csy · 28th May 2005, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yang Rui

...
易游网 yi4you2wang3: would emphasise ease and convenience of use
...

There's a Chinese internet travel company called 游易网 you2yi4wang3, www.yoee.com, so imo, 易游网 yi4you2wang3 would not be suitable.

dopo · 28th May 2005, 02:54 PM

Firstly,i think there may be no nessory to add .com at the end for in China we don't care about wether it is a com or an org,so u can just emphisze the meaning of lastminute.
Secondly,if u are going to offer service to those who plans to travel but have no time to prepare for it,i think u can consider the name 网游天下wang3you2tian1xia4 which means making preparation for travel on line,although there is not the meaning of lastminut or quickly service but it suggest that u can get a quick service from the internet since in China we think the net should be the fastest way to deal with any affair.
Waiting for your company in China.
Good Luck!

JustJon · 29th May 2005, 09:15 AM

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the responses.

Does 网 literally mean .com?

Ideally what I am aiming to do is find a series of Chinese characters that when spoken in Chinese sound similar to the original name in English. There are some examples that I found on the internet below:

--------------------------------
Lucent’s Chinese name is Lang Xun – Lang means ‘bright’, and Xun means ‘communications’. So, Lucent’s Chinese name means ‘bright communications,’ and it sounds similar to the original English pronunciation.

HP’s Chinese name is Hui Pu – Hui means ‘to benefit,’ and Pu means ‘to popularize.’ Therefore the Chinese name communicates HP’s mission to popularize technology that benefits the people.

The Chinese name for Ericsson is Ai li Xin – Ai means ‘to love,’ li ‘to establish,’ and Xin means ‘to trust or have confidence.’
--------------------------------

If I could get something along those lines for last minute that that would be superb. Even if it doesn't sound exactly the same it would still be pretty good.

So 旅 gives me the "L" sound now all I need is "ast", "Mi" and "nit". So "ast" could be just "st" or "as" or whatever fits. I'm not really bothered which of the concepts are used as long as it doesn't sound stupid or negative. So it could be something like "Travel, Fun, Spontaneity, Life" or Travel, leisure and life solutions" or "Travel solutions for life" etc etc. If I do go down this root I'll probably drop the .com bit in the name of brevity.

I know it's not going to end up the ideal chinese name but it's got to fit in with the old brand name as well. If I could get something that sounds similar when spoken and conveys the same values then that would hit the nail on the head.

Thanks again,

All suggestions are extremely welcome and much appreciated.

skylee · 29th May 2005, 09:35 AM

JustJon, I am a bit confused, as http://www.lastminute.com and http://www.lastminute.net and also http://www.lastminute.com.cn are already being used. Do you mean you own (one of) these websites and want a Chinese name for them? If so, shouldn't you be hiring a PR/advertising firm and then spend a lot of money for that firm to think up the Chinese name? You requirements/specifications seem to call for such service.

If not, then you are not going to use lastminute.com as your URL, right? (as it has already been used.) Then are you trying to fit a chinese name in the URL? (I know it is possible but have not yet seen/used one.)

Could you explain?

geraldc · 29th May 2005, 10:27 AM

The examples of succesful name conversions you gave were all proper nouns, whereas Last minute is more of phrase.

A better example for you to follow would be Kentucky Fried Chicken. When they entered the Chinese market, they didn't bother transliterating their entire name, they just did the Kentucky part to: 肯德基, they didn't bother transliterating the fried chicken part of their name. Then when Kentucky Fried Chicken decided to rebrand itself to KFC, they didn't even bother changing the name of the company in China, so it's still 肯德基. The rest of the world calls it KFC, China still calls it ken-de-ji

网 does not mean .com, it's just the word for net. Chinese for .com is .com

csy · 29th May 2005, 11:04 AM

How about 旅敏 lv3 min 3

旅 lv3 : suggests travel
敏 min 3 : suggests quickness, agility, promptness

lv3min3 : sounds like lastminute

TSkillet · 29th May 2005, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skylee

If so, shouldn't you be hiring a PR/advertising firm and then spend a lot of money for that firm to think up the Chinese name? You requirements/specifications seem to call for such service.

I'd agree with this one. I mean, there are a lot of people who speak Chinese and write Chinese here - but even if some of us are branding experts (and I don't think there are any here really - sorry for doubting everyone) - would you be really willing to entrust such a large decision to a bunch of people who post on an internet bulletin board?

eastt · 29th May 2005, 04:56 PM

If you launch your business in shanghai or somewhere nearby, 拉米网(la1 mi3 wang3) is a good choice, it is a very popular slang in this big city in recent years; in shanghainese it means earning money (by chance).

geraldc · 29th May 2005, 07:06 PM

I think this thread is related to a school project or something...

Lastminute.com was floated on the London stock exchange a few years ago, and they're now in the process of being taken over by travelocity...

TSkillet · 30th May 2005, 12:47 AM

Honestly - I don't think you would have to translate the name into Chinese. There are plenty of international brand names which survive and thrive in China in their natural foreign language state.

There's no Chinese translation for companies like Nike (nike.com.cn) the NBA (well there is, but it's so rarely used, I've only seen it on the business cards of the NBA China employees - everyone just says "NBA" (china.nba.com), IBM, Louis Vuitton, and a whole lot of other companies I can't recall right now.

Especially when you add the fact that your target consumers (wealthy enough to plan vacations or trips at the last minute; overseas travellers; e-commerce savvy) will most likely realize the meaning of "last minute"

skylee · 30th May 2005, 08:24 AM

I agreee with TSkillet.

This is off the topic, but Louis Vuitton is 路易維登 and IBM is known as 萬國商業機器.

TSkillet · 31st May 2005, 02:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skylee

I agreee with TSkillet.

This is off the topic, but Louis Vuitton is 路易維登 and IBM is known as 萬國商業機器.

okay. . .maybe i was overzealous. technically there may be chinese translations for nike (Ni Ke - is what most people say) or the NBA (i can't rememebr off the top of my head) but nobody really says 路易維登 or 萬國商業機器 amongst my friends in China. They just say "LV" or "IBM" or "Nike/Ni-Ke" or "NBA"

JustJon · 4th June 2005, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skylee

JustJon, I am a bit confused, as http://www.lastminute.com and http://www.lastminute.net and also http://www.lastminute.com.cn are already being used. Do you mean you own (one of) these websites and want a Chinese name for them? If so, shouldn't you be hiring a PR/advertising firm and then spend a lot of money for that firm to think up the Chinese name? You requirements/specifications seem to call for such service.

If not, then you are not going to use lastminute.com as your URL, right? (as it has already been used.) Then are you trying to fit a chinese name in the URL? (I know it is possible but have not yet seen/used one.)

Could you explain?

Sorry if I've been slightly misleading. Very unfortunately for me I don't own lastminute.com. The translation is needed for a University project which is why there is no budget for specialist translators. I did mention this in previous posts, but I should of probably put it at the top of this one as well.

The brand name conversion is probably the most important part of the project. That's why I'm fussing over it a bit.

I read an article about converting Western brand names into Chinese and it stated that the name should be transliterated if:

a) It uses a proper noun and can't therefore be translated
b) The meaning is lost or diluted when translated

I was worried that 最后一分钟 looses a lot of the values behind the brand as it's not really a saying used with positive meaning in China.

The thing is I need to convert the name in order to make the grade so it's either 最后一分钟 or one of the other suggestions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by csy

How about 旅敏 lv3 min 3

旅 lv3 : suggests travel
敏 min 3 : suggests quickness, agility, promptness

lv3min3 : sounds like lastminute

Is this true?
If so this is probably the option I'll go for.
How close does it sound when spoken?

If it was my company I would leave it in English but I can't. What complicates things further is that the name is also the URL. I think what I'll do is use either 最后一分钟 or 旅敏 and then have lastminute.com.cn as a small strapline underneath.

What do you think?
Thanks again for all the suggestions they've been a lot of help.

geraldc · 4th June 2005, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustJon

If it was my company I would leave it in English but I can't. What complicates things further is that the name is also the URL. I think what I'll do is use either 最后一分钟 or 旅敏 and then have lastminute.com.cn as a small strapline underneath.

I don't see why you can't just leave the name lastminute.com, these days with cookies and software that detects geographical location, users get forwarded to the correct regional site.

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27th May 2005, 10:56 AM	#1
JustJon	Converting western brand names into Chinese (Sorry quite long) Hi everyone, Firstly I'd like to appologise in advance for the long post you are hopefully about to read and also for posting something similar before. I've now done a bit more research and have a better understanding of exactly what I'm trying to ask. I'm trying to convert a western brand name into Chinese and therefore making it more easily accepted in China. The name I'm trying to convert is lastminute.com I want it to appear as native and indigenous as possible. I read that there are 2 popular ways of doing this, literally word for word which someone on another post has kindly suggested is 最后一分钟. The problem with this is I don't know what to do about the .com bit because it's actually part of the name as well as the URL. The second problem is I don't know whether some of the meaning of the brand / phrase will be lost if converted in this way. Do the Chinese use "last minute" as a popular phrase as it's used in English or is it just two words stuck together? Does it tend to mean disorganised rather than spontaneous? The other way I've read is Transliteration (This seems like a better idea to me) as Coca-Cola have done with ke kou ke le which apparently means “to taste something palatable from which one derives pleasure.” As I understand it, you need to take the phonetic sounds of the name and then match Chinese characters to them, so when read in Chinese the converted name sounds similar if not the same as the original. Apparently the art to this is to pick Chinese characters that convey the meaning of the brand as done with Coca-Cola. The type of things I would like to convey in the converted name include: Travel, Leisure, Fun, Spontaneity, Complete travel solutions, Journey, Relaxation, Living life for the moment, Throwing caution to the wind, Buying or doing something on impulse, taking care of people, guidance, tours, having a good life etc etc. What I don't want to include is things like being disorganised or leaving things until the last minute and latter regretting it. Do you think it is necessary to transliterate the name like this or would a literal conversion be better? If transliteration would be better has anyone got any ideas? If I go down this root I suppose I will also need to use a Pinyin conversion for the actual URL so it can be typed in? Any help with this would be greatly appreciated as this has been going round in my mind for quite some time. Sorry again for the long post.

28th May 2005, 02:39 AM	#2
Yang Rui	At the moment i can't think of anything that would satisfy your needs, but i'll keep thinking about it. However, for the ".com" bit, i think you could just add the character 网 (wang3) at the end. This post might seem a bit lame as it doesn't really answer the question, but if you manage to think of a snappy name and then add wang at the end, that will get the "dotcom" idea across. I'm also thinking the character 旅 could feature as it has the "l" sound of lastminute, and means travel.

28th May 2005, 05:27 AM	#3
Yang Rui	It will be difficult to fit all those other ideas that you have mentioned into a short and snappy name. Maybe you need to decide which one or two of these concepts is most important and concentrate on those. I'm not a native speaker, so at the risk of attracting ridicule, might i suggest 速游网 su4you2wang3: this would emphasise how quickly clients could book online and just go travelling。 Or maybe 速战旅游网 to emphasise quick and decisive. 易游网 yi4you2wang3: would emphasise ease and convenience of use IMHO the name needs to be short otherwise it won't roll off the tongue. If you want to include the character 网 and thereby get across the dotcom idea, then you'll have to be very selective about the other characters and you'll only be able to get one or maximum two concepts across. You should also check your final choice with a native Chinese speaker to make sure it doesn't sound ridiculous. Hope this helps

28th May 2005, 11:27 AM	#4
csy	How about 及时网？ According to the dictionary I use, 及时 ji2shi2 means: (1) [in time;at the right moment;be propitiously timed;in good time;forehanded]∶立刻;马上工作中有问题必须及时解决及时相遣日。——《玉台新咏·古诗为焦仲卿妻作》 (2) [forthwith;without delay;promptly]∶迅速地;毫不耽搁地你应及时地动身回家 Caveat Emptor: I'm not a native speaker. Perhaps it's best to check with a professional Chinese trademarking company. You may also like to be aware that there're a number of Chinese internet hotel and flight booking companies that do a good job with last minute reservations: http://www.ctrip.com http://www.elong.com/

28th May 2005, 11:30 AM	#5
csy	Quote: Originally Posted by Yang Rui ... 易游网 yi4you2wang3: would emphasise ease and convenience of use ... There's a Chinese internet travel company called 游易网 you2yi4wang3, www.yoee.com, so imo, 易游网 yi4you2wang3 would not be suitable.

28th May 2005, 02:54 PM	#6
dopo	Firstly,i think there may be no nessory to add .com at the end for in China we don't care about wether it is a com or an org,so u can just emphisze the meaning of lastminute. Secondly,if u are going to offer service to those who plans to travel but have no time to prepare for it,i think u can consider the name 网游天下wang3you2tian1xia4 which means making preparation for travel on line,although there is not the meaning of lastminut or quickly service but it suggest that u can get a quick service from the internet since in China we think the net should be the fastest way to deal with any affair. Waiting for your company in China. Good Luck!

29th May 2005, 09:15 AM	#7
JustJon	Hi Guys, Thanks for the responses. Does 网 literally mean .com? Ideally what I am aiming to do is find a series of Chinese characters that when spoken in Chinese sound similar to the original name in English. There are some examples that I found on the internet below: -------------------------------- Lucent’s Chinese name is Lang Xun – Lang means ‘bright’, and Xun means ‘communications’. So, Lucent’s Chinese name means ‘bright communications,’ and it sounds similar to the original English pronunciation. HP’s Chinese name is Hui Pu – Hui means ‘to benefit,’ and Pu means ‘to popularize.’ Therefore the Chinese name communicates HP’s mission to popularize technology that benefits the people. The Chinese name for Ericsson is Ai li Xin – Ai means ‘to love,’ li ‘to establish,’ and Xin means ‘to trust or have confidence.’ -------------------------------- If I could get something along those lines for last minute that that would be superb. Even if it doesn't sound exactly the same it would still be pretty good. So 旅 gives me the "L" sound now all I need is "ast", "Mi" and "nit". So "ast" could be just "st" or "as" or whatever fits. I'm not really bothered which of the concepts are used as long as it doesn't sound stupid or negative. So it could be something like "Travel, Fun, Spontaneity, Life" or Travel, leisure and life solutions" or "Travel solutions for life" etc etc. If I do go down this root I'll probably drop the .com bit in the name of brevity. I know it's not going to end up the ideal chinese name but it's got to fit in with the old brand name as well. If I could get something that sounds similar when spoken and conveys the same values then that would hit the nail on the head. Thanks again, All suggestions are extremely welcome and much appreciated.

29th May 2005, 09:35 AM	#8
skylee	JustJon, I am a bit confused, as http://www.lastminute.com and http://www.lastminute.net and also http://www.lastminute.com.cn are already being used. Do you mean you own (one of) these websites and want a Chinese name for them? If so, shouldn't you be hiring a PR/advertising firm and then spend a lot of money for that firm to think up the Chinese name? You requirements/specifications seem to call for such service. If not, then you are not going to use lastminute.com as your URL, right? (as it has already been used.) Then are you trying to fit a chinese name in the URL? (I know it is possible but have not yet seen/used one.) Could you explain?

29th May 2005, 10:27 AM	#9
geraldc	The examples of succesful name conversions you gave were all proper nouns, whereas Last minute is more of phrase. A better example for you to follow would be Kentucky Fried Chicken. When they entered the Chinese market, they didn't bother transliterating their entire name, they just did the Kentucky part to: 肯德基, they didn't bother transliterating the fried chicken part of their name. Then when Kentucky Fried Chicken decided to rebrand itself to KFC, they didn't even bother changing the name of the company in China, so it's still 肯德基. The rest of the world calls it KFC, China still calls it ken-de-ji 网 does not mean .com, it's just the word for net. Chinese for .com is .com

29th May 2005, 11:04 AM	#10
csy	How about 旅敏 lv3 min 3 旅 lv3 : suggests travel 敏 min 3 : suggests quickness, agility, promptness lv3min3 : sounds like lastminute

29th May 2005, 04:38 PM	#11
TSkillet	Quote: Originally Posted by skylee If so, shouldn't you be hiring a PR/advertising firm and then spend a lot of money for that firm to think up the Chinese name? You requirements/specifications seem to call for such service. I'd agree with this one. I mean, there are a lot of people who speak Chinese and write Chinese here - but even if some of us are branding experts (and I don't think there are any here really - sorry for doubting everyone) - would you be really willing to entrust such a large decision to a bunch of people who post on an internet bulletin board?

29th May 2005, 04:56 PM	#12
eastt	If you launch your business in shanghai or somewhere nearby, 拉米网(la1 mi3 wang3) is a good choice, it is a very popular slang in this big city in recent years; in shanghainese it means earning money (by chance).

29th May 2005, 07:06 PM	#13
geraldc	I think this thread is related to a school project or something... Lastminute.com was floated on the London stock exchange a few years ago, and they're now in the process of being taken over by travelocity...

30th May 2005, 12:47 AM	#14
TSkillet	Honestly - I don't think you would have to translate the name into Chinese. There are plenty of international brand names which survive and thrive in China in their natural foreign language state. There's no Chinese translation for companies like Nike (nike.com.cn) the NBA (well there is, but it's so rarely used, I've only seen it on the business cards of the NBA China employees - everyone just says "NBA" (china.nba.com), IBM, Louis Vuitton, and a whole lot of other companies I can't recall right now. Especially when you add the fact that your target consumers (wealthy enough to plan vacations or trips at the last minute; overseas travellers; e-commerce savvy) will most likely realize the meaning of "last minute"

30th May 2005, 08:24 AM	#15
skylee	I agreee with TSkillet. This is off the topic, but Louis Vuitton is 路易維登 and IBM is known as 萬國商業機器.

31st May 2005, 02:59 AM	#16
TSkillet	Quote: Originally Posted by skylee I agreee with TSkillet. This is off the topic, but Louis Vuitton is 路易維登 and IBM is known as 萬國商業機器. okay. . .maybe i was overzealous. technically there may be chinese translations for nike (Ni Ke - is what most people say) or the NBA (i can't rememebr off the top of my head) but nobody really says 路易維登 or 萬國商業機器 amongst my friends in China. They just say "LV" or "IBM" or "Nike/Ni-Ke" or "NBA"

4th June 2005, 09:08 AM	#17
JustJon	Quote: Originally Posted by skylee JustJon, I am a bit confused, as http://www.lastminute.com and http://www.lastminute.net and also http://www.lastminute.com.cn are already being used. Do you mean you own (one of) these websites and want a Chinese name for them? If so, shouldn't you be hiring a PR/advertising firm and then spend a lot of money for that firm to think up the Chinese name? You requirements/specifications seem to call for such service. If not, then you are not going to use lastminute.com as your URL, right? (as it has already been used.) Then are you trying to fit a chinese name in the URL? (I know it is possible but have not yet seen/used one.) Could you explain? Sorry if I've been slightly misleading. Very unfortunately for me I don't own lastminute.com. The translation is needed for a University project which is why there is no budget for specialist translators. I did mention this in previous posts, but I should of probably put it at the top of this one as well. The brand name conversion is probably the most important part of the project. That's why I'm fussing over it a bit. I read an article about converting Western brand names into Chinese and it stated that the name should be transliterated if: a) It uses a proper noun and can't therefore be translated b) The meaning is lost or diluted when translated I was worried that 最后一分钟 looses a lot of the values behind the brand as it's not really a saying used with positive meaning in China. The thing is I need to convert the name in order to make the grade so it's either 最后一分钟 or one of the other suggestions. Quote: Originally Posted by csy How about 旅敏 lv3 min 3 旅 lv3 : suggests travel 敏 min 3 : suggests quickness, agility, promptness lv3min3 : sounds like lastminute Is this true? If so this is probably the option I'll go for. How close does it sound when spoken? If it was my company I would leave it in English but I can't. What complicates things further is that the name is also the URL. I think what I'll do is use either 最后一分钟 or 旅敏 and then have lastminute.com.cn as a small strapline underneath. What do you think? Thanks again for all the suggestions they've been a lot of help.

4th June 2005, 09:38 AM	#18
geraldc	Quote: Originally Posted by JustJon If it was my company I would leave it in English but I can't. What complicates things further is that the name is also the URL. I think what I'll do is use either 最后一分钟 or 旅敏 and then have lastminute.com.cn as a small strapline underneath. I don't see why you can't just leave the name lastminute.com, these days with cookies and software that detects geographical location, users get forwarded to the correct regional site.