To 背 or not to 背 : writing well in Chinese.

[yonitabonita]

Hi folks,

In need to set my mind straight after a particularly demoralising writing class.

Every day I go to an advanced HSK writing class where the teacher gives us a set topic and we're asked to jot out a 400-600 word essay.

A model essay, written by the teacher, crammed with chengyu is provided to us. Before we write our own essays, we'll go through the model paper. Up until recently, this has been fine.

But lately, the teacher has sectioned off paragraphs that are chengyu heavy. She gives us 3 minutes to learn them by heart, and then asks us to recite the passage in front of the class.

I absolutely hate this! I'm the only non-Korean in the class and the only idiot that stumbles my way to the mid point of the paragraph before forgetting the rest of the paragraph.

ok, today's exercise:

执竿人错就错在不动脑筋，不善于思考，缺乏自主性，没有主见，因而在问题面前就束手无策，不知所措，于是不得不依赖他人，这样就难免被骗，上当，受损失。其实，在生活工作中，这种现象不胜枚举。　当我们面对选择时，　往往举棋不定，这时，很愿意将决定的权利交给别人：　或者面对一个问题时，不愿意开动大脑，懒得思考，干脆人云亦云，随大溜，结果就回被别人牵着鼻子走，起结果是百还而无一利。

I can't help but feel that rote learning a slab of someone else's writing is futile. And admittedly this will come across as a tad too precious but I find it humiliating to regurgitate like a brainless robot. This bad attitude of mine may partly be due to my innate inability to perform well at this exercise - which is only exacerbated by the humiliation and dread I feel when the others in the class have no problem doing it at all.

So I told the teacher today that I couldn't do it because it's not in my educational background to rote learn and recite passages of writing. She remarked how very cushy the western education system must be, and that rote learning other people's writing is the only way to write well in Chinese.

I'm so demoralised. I've got no issues with rote learning vocab, but slabs of other people's writing? How very dull! If this is the only way to writing proficiency then I might as well hang up my hat and call it a day.

Those of you who write well - how did you get there, and did you have to memorise slabs of duzhe articles. Please share your thoughts!

Thanks in advance,

Y

[JimmySeal]

All I can say to that is

[yonitabonita]

cute, but not exactly what I was after.

[roddy]

How about this:

more what you were looking for?

How many students are in the class? Having been a teacher myself I know how useful techniques like that can be to fill up a lesson plan without too much effort.

If the rest of the class is useful I might just grin and bear it. Otherwise it might be a final straw.

Roddy

PS At least they're not trying to make you do it on stage at BLCU

[JimmySeal]

I'm very much a newcomer to the Chinese language, but I have been learning Japanese for 9 years and have been commended for my writing in that language, and I've never memorized any passage. I think the key to writing well in any language is to read a lot and write a lot, not memorize text. And I can't see how a teacher would think that memorizing large chunks of it within a small time limit would be in any way superior to memorizing it at one's leisure.

けしからん

But that could be my cushy Western education talking.

[heifeng]

Hi Yonitabonita!

I know what you mean about the memorization... I am not so good at speed memorizing stuff .... but sometimes if I find an article that is well written on a topic I might want to discuss, then I think that it doesn't hurt to memorize parts of it so that you can use some good phrases. (But I do not support memorization overkill either!!)

My writing is far from great, but I have made improvements in my writing over the last year or so, mostly through reading many essays and occasionally memorizing some useful paragraphs or sentences I liked from different essays (usually with heavily descriptive vocabulary so that I don't get stuck using the same simplistic adjectives) and occasionally famous quotes. I also found a book that is for chuzhong xuesheng to help them with essay writing and contains sample passages and recommended chengyu (at wangfujing bookstore there are a ton of these books for those poor chuzhong and gaozhong students for test preparation. I like the chuzhong stuff b/c their writing doesn't contain as much wenyanwen...etc I MAY have written this before on the forums...I can't remember, but in my opinion some of those chuzhong xuesheng essays are really good) Anyway, reading through a book of essays is helpful since it's easier to write something the more you have been exposed to different samples. Oh yeah, also, I *attempt* to write a journal entry with chengyu describing the day's weather, my mood, misc. And then the actual journal entry or record of that days events. I think this also helped with my chengyu b/c sometimes after I wrote a chengyu, the next day I would actually hear someone say it...

Anyway, to a certain extent memorization is helpful. Also if your class is for the HSK and if it is at Diqiucun by chance, they teach more mechanically there with little room to think on your own....good for rigid exam testing...bad for letting the creative juices flow...

[gato]

I recommend reading this thread on Chinese writing style in its entirety. It'll provide you with a different perspective from your teacher's.

http://www.chinese-forums.com/showthread.php?p=11681#post11681

Chinese style vs. English style

I am vehemently against memorizing myself, especially because I have a poor memory for such things. We used to have recitation assignments when I was in elementary school in China, for which I used to spend hours memorizing some supposedly canonical essay, whereas I could quickly zip through the rest of my homework.

Because Chinese (particularly formal Chinese) is so different when written as opposed to spoken, studying and memorizing certain formal sentence patterns would help one to internalize these constructions. But memorizing whole paragraphs (or even essays, as was the case in my elementary school) is overkill and can only help turn one into a robot.

To really improve your writing, I would suggest trying the following: Write an essay every week, on a topic of your own choice, and then have someone whose writing skills you respect (this can be a tutor) thoroughly correct and revise your writing, heavily mark it, and perhaps even rewrite certain passages for you. Being able to meet with the "writing tutor" in person and discuss your essays is probably the most ideal, but if that's not possible, you could also do it online exchange drafts and comments via email. After digesting the comments, you could rewrite and submit another draft and get further comments. If you do this consistently for a few months, I guarantee that you'll see better results than if you spend the same amount of time memorizing someone else's writing.

As for how to find that writing tutor, since you've in China for a while, I'm sure you can think of somebody. It can be done in a for-pay arrangement, or perhaps as an exchange (you can help with his/her English writing while he/she helps with your Chinese).

[yonitabonita]

Hi guys,

Thanks for your input. And so speedy too!

Roddy - there are 7 students in my class. But since they can all recite really well, it they only eat up 7 minutes of my 2 hour class. I take up about 3 minutes - or is it an eternity .. But as you rightfully point out, I ought to count my blessings. I'm not doing it on stage at the BLCU, nor am I made to do it naked, nor am I made to do it with 6 baozis in my mouth.

Heifeng - you're right on the money. Diqiucun it is. Thanks for the gaozhong essay compilation tip. I'll do some investigation. Got a suggested title? Or is there generally a section in a big bookstore just full of such publications?

Jimmyseal - due to my western bias, I hope you're right.

Gato - thanks for the suggestion. I forgot about private tutors...

Y

[heifeng]

I don't recall the exact name of the book I am using (maybe 初中写作好句好段 something or rather) but there is a floor at that wfj bookstore that has a ton of those books (for Chinese students, not w/ the foreign student stuff). I literally spent a couple hours comparing a ton of books there, so I definitely recommend just checking them out when you have some time to kill. If anything that type of sample essay and writing reference book is good b/c if you want to describe someone's face, clothes, body, attitude, or plants, weather, season....flip flip flip to page ### and the chengyu and other key vocal are all there. (Only problem is sometimes they may not have pinyin since by chuzhong level they may not need it that much anymore...)

Anyway, best of luck...I think I know what teacher you are talking about:mrgreen: And don't feel bad about those 3 minutes, you paid for all 120 minutes, you might as well personally use up much of the class time as you can!!!

[roddy]

Also, nearer the CSL section (3rd floor I think, the stuff Heifeng is talking about is on the 2nd floor?) there are plenty of books on writing for college students / journalists / cadres (i kid you not) and so on which might be worth a look. Kind of depends if you want to learn just for the HSK, or for real world use.

[gato]

Also books teaching English-to-Chinese translation are good for learning how to put more complicated thoughts down on paper in Chinese, too.

Here are two good ones that I've bought:

http://www.joyo.com/detail/product.asp?prodid=bkbk609631&ref=SR&uid=168-5970982-6240241

英汉翻译技能指引

作者：刘宓庆

http://product.dangdang.com/product.aspx?product_id=7418693

英汉法律翻译教程

作者：孙万彪编

[skylee]

Memorisation of Chinese texts was part of my education, which I got in Hong Kong. We were not really required to memorise much modern writings (and I thought it unreasonable each time I was required to do so), but it was a requirement to memorise texts in Classical Chinese. I do not object to this (or I did not as I was a kid). And I think that by doing so I got a good foundation of the Chinese language. I genuinely think that it is good to memorise texts in classical chinese.

That said, I don't think requiring students to memorise texts in modern chinese (like that given by the OP) within minutes in class is reasonable. I also don't agree that memorising is the only way to learn to write well in Chinese. I agree with others who suggest that reading a lot and practising a lot are the keys.

My own experience from learning English in high school - I always got good marks for English composition and I did not think I had to go to an evening class. But everyone in my class went to evening classes so I just followed suit. We got from the evening class this model essay about fireworks display and we were supposed to learn it. Back in school a few days later it happened that we had to write about the very same subject. Everyone had learned the model essay so everyone wrote the same thing. And I got the lowest mark ever that time. After that I quit the evening class. And my English composition got back to "normal".

[tanhql]

要学生当场背诵短文是不实际的，尤其当学生不知道背的是什么。 我以前在学校学中文时，需要背的东西也只是老师给我们默写的短文，最多是背诵一些诗或词之类的东西。是，要写篇好文章需要多看和多读别人写的好文章，但是要当场把别人的文章一字不漏的背出来，恐怕会事倍功半吧。

it's impractical to recite texts on the spot, especially if the students don't know what they are reciting. when i was studying chinese back in school, the only thing that needed memorising was 默写, at most reciting poems and such. yes, to write a good essay, you have to study other people's good essays, but it's wasted effort to recite others' essay on the spot.

[DrZero]

As long as the Chinese educational system operates this way, it will be hard for the country to move its economy from one of imitating (lots of factories) to one of innovation. Memorizing texts is not going to make you a better writer. though learning vocabulary, idioms, constructions and style from them is of course a good thing.)

[sunyata]

...but there is a floor at that wfj bookstore that has a ton of those books (for Chinese students, not w/ the foreign student stuff)...

sorry for the off-top, but which bookstore are you referring to?

[gougou]

sorry for the off-top, but which bookstore are you referring to?

Wangfujing Bookstore.

[gato]

I've been browsing through bookstores looking for a Chinese equivalent to Strunk and White's "The Element of Style." Alas, it doesn't exist. But these "作文诊所“ genre of books below are a useful alternative. They typically shows you sample students essays being revised. Through the revisions, you learn about common grammatical and stylistic problems. I think the most effective way to improve one's writing is by writing and having your work revised by a good writer. Seeing someone else's work revised is almost as good.

Most Chinese writing books are basically recipe books. There are basically two genres. The first give you the "content." In this culture, many students don't know what's "appropriate" to write, and these books tells you what's acceptable. The second genre are "form" books. They shows the format for a descriptive essay, emotive essay (in which you discuss how much you love your parents, country, and city; the most popular type on exams), persuasive essay, official letters, etc. These "作文诊所“ books are a welcome relief from these formulas.

http://product.dangdang.com/product.aspx?product_id=9262351

初中典型范例作文分类诊所

http://www.amazon.cn/detail/product.asp?prodid=zjbk383030&ref=SR&uid=168-4882708-2472267

中考优秀作文高分点拨与作文修改

http://search.dangdang.com/search.aspx?key=%D7%F7%CE%C4%D5%EF%CB%F9&selbook=0&selmusic=0&selmovie=0&key1=&key2=&key3=&key4=&key5=&catalog=01

作文诊所

[David Huo]

I must say there are mistakes in the model text, it should be:

执竿人错就错在不动脑筋，不善于思考，缺乏自主性，没有主见，因而在问题面前就束手无策，不知所措，于是不得不依赖他人，这样就难免被骗，上当，受损失。其实，在生活工作中，这种现象不胜枚举。　当我们面对选择时，　往往举棋不定，这时，很愿意将决定的权利交给别人；或者面对一个问题时，不愿意开动大脑，懒得思考，干脆人云亦云，随大溜，结果就会被别人牵着鼻子走，其结果是百害而无一利。