Colloquial idioms

[Scoobyqueen]

I am trying to acquire colloquial idioms and was wondering if there is an on-line list somewhere. I dont mean cheng yus but basically expressions such as:

鼻子不是鼻子脸不是脸

开刀

二把刀

ie the types that often crop up in HSK tests.

I have a lot of material but wondered if a lot of these expressions are already entered into an online ist. Thought I would ask before reinventing the wheel as it were. I had a browse on the forums and could not uncover anything.

[gato]

Colloquial idioms are 俗语, I think. You might also consider 谚语 which are proverbs.

Here are some lists:

http://www.zgma.com/suyu.htm

俗语大全

http://www.blogchinese.com/296/viewspace-808236

民间经典俗语大全

http://www.zhengjicn.com/17.htm

谚语大全

http://www.edu3g.com/mjyy/

民间谚语

[roddy]

Also the 惯用词 of this set may be useful. I'd recommend both for anyone taking the HSK and struggling with the colloquial bits of the listening.

[Scoobyqueen]

Thanks for your contributions.

I am going to start a list of colloquial idioms, probably in quizlet. If anyone wants to join in, please let me know.

I have lots of different material including the book recommended by Roddy here. It is a matter of entering them into a system with some examples to match.

[chrix]

I'm doing something like that for chengyu, but I've been collecting idiomatic expressions in general. For instance I tried to extract all idiomatic expressions from CEDICT, and there were a lot of non-chengyu idiomatic expressions. I think sometimes the distinction between chengyu and non-chengyu idioms is hard to draw.

I'd be interested in knowing how you have been collecting idiomatic expressions.

[Scoobyqueen]

I'd be interested in knowing how you have been collecting idiomatic expressions

Sorry for the late response. I have few books on colloquial expressions. I then test the various idioms on Chinese people. If prompted they will often propose another one or two using the same imagery. For example "吃了个闭门羹" someone might add another one with "吃" 吃不消 or 八成得黄 another one might be suggested using "八" 八字还没有一撇儿.

[chrix]

that sounds very interesting. I'm not sure if you'd be willing to share, but if that were the case, I would be very glad

[Scoobyqueen]

Chrix - I have only just started entering terms and would not mind making it a shared resource that is also open to contributions. Any idea which would be the best way to make it available? I use quizlet but could equally enter it into another system (I am not a nerdette).

[chrix]

Hi, I'm not familiar with quizlet, but any machine-readable format should work. Maybe comma separated text (CSV)? That should be enough for crosschecking it with other data people might have, say idioms from CEDICT. Thanks

[tooironic]

Are you just looking for online lists, or user contributions as well? Because I'm sure I could come up with a decent sized list which might help...

[chrix]

well considering that idiomatic expressions are amongst the more difficult aspects of any language, I think many learners here would welcome any kind of contribution on the matter, including me

[Scoobyqueen]

I suggest someone proposes where we can enter the terms and people can add if they wish. Like I said I am no nerd so don’t know what would be the best way but some sort of centralised system rather than just posting expression on a thread might be more useful. I have an initial list with some ten terms which might provide a basis.

[chrix]

well i could volunteer to map them with the CEDÍCT dictionary entries...

Or we could just put them in a spreadsheet format. One could use google docs, they have a spread sheet function, I'm not sure how flexible it would be though

[gato]

well considering that idiomatic expressions are amongst the more difficult aspects of any language, I think many learners here would welcome any kind of contribution on the matter, including me

Well, these two lists I posted before are pretty good. Why don't you use them?

http://www.zhengjicn.com/17.htm

谚语大全

http://www.blogchinese.com/296/viewspace-808236

民间经典俗语大全

[Scoobyqueen]

I just exported the file from Quizlet and I then pasted it into word. Is that what you meant? I separated it by commas but there were other options too. Some spelling mistakes in there and some improvements that I meant to add.

colloguial terms.doc

[chrix]

hey thanks, looks very interesting.

I'm not familiar with the format used by quizlet, but did you save everything as is, or did you split up in different bits, say

- jiantizi

- pinyin

- meaning

- example

because the way they look to me in the Word file, they look like they were saved "as is".

It's my advice to always code those bits differently, so that you can later process them more easily.

It doesn't matter so much what you use in a CSV file, be it tabs, semicolons or commas, as long as it is done consistenly.

Commas might not be a good idea though, because they're often used to list multiple meanings, which might cause trouble.

[Scoobyqueen]

Gato - I dont know if I am accessing it correctly. It looks as though most cheng yus rather than colloquial terms. Am I reading that correctly?

[Scoobyqueen]

It's my advice to always code those bits differently, so that you can later process them more easily.

It doesn't matter so much what you use in a CSV file, be it tabs, semicolons or commas, as long as it is done consistenly.

Sounds a bit like Greek to me. I dont do codes and dont know what CSV files are. I will ask someone nerdly here in the office about how best to save the terms. I have many more to add by the way.

[chrix]

yes, the more you have, the more important is consistent coding

CSV stands for Comma Separated Values.

So if you had say the following bits:

1. expression in hanzi

2. pinyin

3. meaning

4. example

5. parts of speech

then every unit would be separated by a comma:

美國, mei3 guo2, America, 我想去美國, n

and every unit would then be ended by a linefeed.

However, the comma might not be a good idea, because you might use commas that don't serve to seperate the bits, as in

美國, mei3 guo2, America, USA, 我想去美國, n

in such a case, a program would wrongly interpret "USA" as an example

Thus, using tabs or semicolons might be better:

美國; mei3 guo2; America, USA; 我想去美國; n

If a program already has saved data in such a way, you can usually tell it to separate the bits using any separator you like. If not, then you might need to get creative..

[gato]

Gato - I dont know if I am accessing it correctly. It looks as though most cheng yus rather than colloquial terms. Am I reading that correctly?

How are you accessing it?

All of these below, for instance, are colloquial idioms. They are more used more in speaking than in formal writing, unlike chengyu's (which might be better translated as literary idioms).

五字俗语 (Five-character Colloquial Idioms)

硬着头皮上　花钱买气受　不打不相识　跟人过不去　天生的一对 八九不离十　眼不见为净

明知山有虎　有劲没处使　旧瓶装新酒　不看不知道　公说公有理　吃软不吃硬 秀才不出门

一报还一报　高低不答应　不服也得服　说话兜圈子　真人不露相　无巧不成书　大眼瞪小眼

话不说不明　能上不能下　水火不相容　不是吃素的 操心不禁老　货卖一张皮　人小点子多

全凭嘴一张　一报还一报　官身不由己　打开话匣子　顾头不顾尾　有嘴就有路 嘴皮上功夫

瞒上不瞒下　人小心不小　同行是冤家 人生地不熟　对事不对人　包在我身上　好说不好听

大人有大量　打虎亲兄弟　功夫不过关 患难见真情 脸红脖子粗 上下都满意 面和心不和

谚语 (Proverbs)

http://www.zhengjicn.com/17.htm

千人千脾气，万人万模样。

谦虚的人学十当一，骄傲的人学一当十。

前三十年睡不醒，后三十年睡不着。

强扭的瓜果不甜。

强中更有强中手，能人背后有能人。

巧言不如直道，明人不必细说。

穷家难舍，熟地难离。

全是生姜不辣，全是花椒不麻。

人爱富的，狗咬穷的。

人不可貌相，海水不可斗量。