National education 國民教育

[skylee]

The HK Govt plans to introduce national education in the formal school curriculum. This had got little public attention until the publication of a national education teaching manual by a pro-beijing organisation. The manual is called 中國模式國情專題教學手冊. The publication was partly funded by HK Govt, and the manual supports the one-party rule. This has attracted a lot of criticism from the public/media. And the Catholic Church in HK has just announced that it would not introduce this subject in the schools it runs in the next academic year until the church has a better idea on how to proceed.

Some relevant news reports -

‘China Model’ Teaching Booklet Riles Hong Kong

天主教香港教區中小學新學年不推行國民教育

I have just got from a friend this video via facebook. It features a speech against the national education subject made by a HK legislator called Wong Yuk-man. Wong was a professor, and is well-educated (few people doubt this). But I, like many people, do not hold a very positive view on him because he is rude, loud, aggressive bordering on violent, and simply put a trouble maker. But I have to agree that what he said in the video made sense, and I agree with him that it is not necessary to have this subject in the school curriculum. Instead students should study Chinese history and culture to learn how to be a Chinese. He quoted what Hu Shi said about the pursuit of freedom in the early 1900s and it is still 100% true and applicable nowadays. He spoke in Cantonese in the video (he is fluent in Mandarin as he spent plenty of time in Taiwan IIRC), but his speech can be found in the hansard of that meeting (pages 123-124).

This is what he quoted from Hu Shi -

現在有人對你們說， 犧牲你們個人的自由來求國家的自由。我對你們說： ‘爭你們個人的自由便是為國家爭自由， 爭你們自己的人格便為國家爭人格。自由平等的國家不是一羣奴才可以建造起來的。’

Views?

[gato]

Do you have a copy of the booklet? Can the LegCo veto the proposal?

[skylee]

You can find the booklet here. (I suggest you download it if you need it for future reference. It might just disappear.)

The HK Govt also says the booklet is biased. http://www.881903.com/Page/ZH-TW/newsdetail.aspx?ItemId=537770&csid=261_341

[HusbandOfWuhan]

Greatly passionate parliamentary speech in Canto by that HK politician Wong. As a Chinese I respect him and what he has to say. But there's no point rebuffing a political directive. It happens in all countries. If a directive is given, it will be carried out whether or not people down the bottom like it. Politics has never primarily been about what people like. It's always about how the governors can govern and consolidate power not lose power. As well as Wong, I also agree with the quote by Hu Shi. But this issue has nothing to do with a HK and ML divide and a one-party rule does not mean that there is no personal or individual freedom. There are many freedoms that exist in the ML that do not exist in many Western countries. Like for example the freedom to eat a lot more types of animals than allowed in the West. Does anybody praise ML for that? No. They don't even care and even dismiss these day to day freedoms as trivial. Every country is in reality also a "one-party" state because it can only be ruled by one party and one senate at any one time(term). There is never "two" or more parties having the last say in the Senate. At the end of the day, one party has to win, one decision has to be made and there is always only one "Head of state". Even in so called "democracies", you can never have 2 Prime Ministers or 2 Presidents. This structure is no different in the PRC. And leaders in the PRC now also sit in positions of high authority for a limited number of years. There are even differing factions within the CCP of the PRC and a ruling committee of 9 leaders and their associates. This means that there can be 9 differing views or at least 2 views about any particular political issue and that a group of leaders make decisions only after things have been discussed. This is not what we would call an autocratic dictatorship. It is also a form of democratic process. Some people are fearful of the title "one-party" because "the one-party state" has been demonised by certain media outlets so many times that that's all they know. But people who have actually done some research into how the CCP of the PRC works, it's not as simplistic as "oh they're Communists so they must be dictators". Well, no.1, PRC is not Communist, it's Socialist and no.2, Hu Jintao very far from being a dictator. If he was, then I don't know why Obama is bowing to him, shaking his hand and doing business with him.

[gato]

There are even differing factions within the CCP of the PRC and a ruling committee of 9 leaders and their associates. This means that there can be 9 differing views or at least 2 views about any particular political issue and that a group of leaders make decisions only after things have been discussed. This is not what we would call an autocratic dictatorship. It is also a form of democratic process. Some people are fearful of the title "one-party" because "the one-party state" has been demonised by certain media outlets so many times that that's all they know.

I suppose HK students will start making these type of arguments, too, after they start the new curriculum.

[skylee]

You are Chinese? (This is irrelevant but I thought you weren't.)

I disagree that political directives will be carried out regardless of what the common people think. At least this is not the case in Hong Kong. Maybe it is just that the HK Govt is weak/lame. I won't object to people saying this.

In 2003 massive protests successfully forced the HK Govt to withdraw the proposal of a national security law (an anti-subversion law). (See the What's New at the centre of this website.) And almost a decade later the Govt is still unable to get enough support to bring up that law again. And the implementation date of the national education subject has already been deferred to 2015 due to public objection.

IMO this has little to do with the politics/freedom in Mainland China. If we can help it we would rather students in HK to have another kind of education. That's all.

[stoney]

"Every country is in reality also a "one-party" state because it can only be ruled by one party and one senate at any one time"

[Flying Pigeon]

"There are many freedoms that exist in the ML that do not exist in many Western countries. Like for example the freedom to eat a lot more types of animals than allowed in the West. "

Wow! Where's the pile of poo emoticon when ya need it?

[skylee]

While the objection seems to be widespread, some schools have embraced the idea of national education.

The media have reported that, at least in one school, 小先鋒隊 has been set up.

A friend (He is a laywer. He keeps sending me such info so it seems that he is quite troubled by what is happening. He said the 小先鋒隊 was too red.) sent me links to Apple Daily articles which object to the promotion of national education pretty strongly.

http://hk.apple.next...120721/16533002

http://hk.apple.next...120721/16533003

http://hk.apple.next...120721/16533001

I believe Apple Daily is not accessible on the Mainland. I thus attach the relevant pdf files.

兵者，德育也 - 20120721 - 蘋果日報.pdf

國民還是黨奴？救救孩子！ - 20120721 - 蘋果日報.pdf

國民小先瘋 - 20120721 - 蘋果日報.pdf

[gato]

Is this a new proposal by Chief Executivr Leung, or carried over from the Tseng administration?

There have been rumors that Leung was an underground Party member. That are many underground Party members in HK.

Is it 少年先锋队 (少先队 for short)? That's what it's called on the mainland.

[HusbandOfWuhan]

My responses to these repliers:

@Skylee - the fact that HK will be gradually assimilated back into mainstream Chinese consciousness and culture is an a apriori event simply because the central committee has planned for it. This is not to say that HK will become like ML because even Guangdong province is not the same as Hebei and Lhasa is different from Shanghai and Chong Qing different from Taibei and so on. Every region within the Chinese realms has its own characteristics. But just because HK has a so called democratic parliament as a legacy of the British Empire does not mean that HK is able to materialistically protect itself from an invasion if it were to happen. For that it relies on the central committee on the ML. And before we start to get all abstractly idealistic about HK and its so called "independent system of govt", let's just think about how its going to protect itself in case of an invasion without the administration of the central government in Beijing.

The second reason why the concept of a self-sufficient HK should be culturally separate from China because it has a democratic parliament is unrealistic is because HK would not be a HK without the whole of China as it is today. So let's say we shut down the CCP and let HK be itself, there is no avenue that HK is going to thrive just because of itself and because of England. Even England couldn't thrive on its own. Furthermore it couldn't even thrive within Europe because the competition for survival and prosperity was too fierce. That's the European powers traveled to Africa and Asia to implement foreign policies that sought to exploit "weaker" Asian and African nations in the 18 - 19 centuries.

@ Stoney and Dean A.Swanson - the tendency to use sarcasm and emoticons to boo and criticise my contribution to this discussion were not merely "cheap shots". They were also viscerally unintelligible from a genuine and rationalistic perspective. If you have a fair and reasonable point that can somehow knock back what I have proposed, you are free to say it. Resorting to sarcastic sneers and emoticons does not display any genuine attempt of issue engagement nor does it challenge anyone reading to cogitate more creatively.

If anyone thinks they have "better" arguments, you are free, as we all are, to engage in the discussion. Remember that I did not create this thread, nor did I create this forum. Neither do I propose that I am anyone or that my comments are anything special. I have only contributed to this simply because I have genuine thoughts and concerns. I have no wish or intention to carry out "blind opinion bashing".

[skylee]

I think this is a very good article -> 給孩子的信 － 愛世界愛和平然後愛國

In case the website is not accessible on the Mainland, I also attach a pdf version.

給孩子的信－愛世界愛和平然後愛國.pdf

[Outofin]

Every country is in reality also a "one-party" state because it can only be ruled by one party and one senate at any one time(term). There is never "two" or more parties having the last say in the Senate. At the end of the day, one party has to win, one decision has to be made and there is always only one "Head of state".

Haha, so laughable. You have no idea how democracies work, do you? In the US, the executive, legislature and judiciary work independently, and their goal is to make sure nobody can get anything done. In the time you make one decision, the 2-party system already makes TWO decisions, (a big win if you're still following me!) and if anything goes wrong, we can always blame on the other party.

By the way, @Flying Pigeon, Secondhand Rose is a good band. 招安 and 采花 are my favorite songs from that album.

[Flying Pigeon]

@Outofin, My favorites are 伎俩, 允许部分艺术家先富起来, and 因为所以. I like P.K. 14 too. Haven't listened to 谁谁谁和谁谁谁 in a long time. 他们 from their 白皮书 album is my favorite song by them.

@Wuhan's Husband, "They were also viscerally unintelligible from a genuine and rationalistic perspective." This sentence deserves three piles.

[skylee]

This thread is relevant -> http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/38745-animation-mcdull-brainwashing-education-%e9%ba%a5%e5%85%9c%e6%b4%97%e8%85%a6%e8%85%a6%e6%95%99%e8%82%b2/

[skylee]

A storm is brewing.

To stop the introduction of "national education", a small-scale hunger strike by students, (retired) teachers and parents has been going on for over a week right at the square of the HK Government Secretariat. While there are only about a dozen strikers, there are thousands of supporters who gather at the square every day after work/school. Class boyott by students of higher education institutions will be held next Tuesday, 2nd day of the new academic year.

The latest news is that (1) the Chief Executive has cancelled his plan to join the APEC Leaders' Meeting in Russia and will stay in HK instead; (2) an Executive Councillor is now telling people that "scrapping national education is an option".

Relevant materials -

Scrapping national education 'an option'

Students may extend classes boycott

「你永遠沒有辦法叫醒裝睡的人」

If there is no breakthrough before the weekend, it will be very interesting to note the impact of this event on the Legislative Council Election to be held on Sunday, 7 September.

[roddy]

Thanks for posting this, Skylee.

[skylee]

This is quite inspiring ->

(from 6:10 min)

Here is the script. Chinese newspaper's report on his speech can be found here.

Dr Sun? Hmmm.

PS - There were at least 36,000 protesters tonight -> Tens of thousands join Tamar protest

[dwq]

Thousands in Hong Kong protest China's influence on new school curriculum

Good photos to show the scale of protest outside of government HQ tonight.

[skylee]

The results of people's action -> Govt backs down on national education

And this is the HK Govt's press release (bilingual) -> Government's statement on Moral and National Education subject

I think this is good enough, although some protesters are still not satisfied. I was a bit worried that the protesters, not being politicians nor keen about negotiation/compromise, would not accept the government's decision. But, luckily IMHO, they have ended their action.

PS - It was quite clever to shift all the responsibilities/blame to the previous government and all the burden to the schools.

The Chief Executive, C Y Leung, has dropped plans to force schools to teach "moral and national education", and to make it an independent subject.

He announced that instead schools would have freedom to decide whether to introduce the subject as part of other courses, such as civic education.

......

Afterwards the protesters who'd been on hunger strike ended their action, while a few hundred demonstrators remained at the venue overnight.