Pronunciation of 明白 & 什么

[Nibble]

I'm a little confused about the pronunciation of 明白... in pinyin, it's written ming2bai; but the Pimsleur teacher says it should be pronounced "with two rising tones" (ming2bai2); and half the time, the native speaker on the tapes seems to pronounce it as ming2bai4. Also, 什么 is written as shen2me, and the native speaker clearly pronounces it that way, but the teacher says it should be pronounced "with a rising then falling tone."

我不明白！

[xiaojiang216]

Dear Nibble,

You are right about 明白. It should be a rising tone, and then a natural tone following it. However, sometimes it may come across as ming2 bai4.

With 什么, it should be said just like 明白. It should be a rising tone followed by a natural tone.

As you know, sometimes what you may be told is not always what is right, sometimes in textbooks!

P.S.: 你学习中文学了多久?

[amandagmu]

I also remember somewhere in my cheng & tsui integrated chinese level 1 part 1 book there is a discussion about how certain tones, when spoken in succession, become something else. For instance, too many tone 3's become a different sound. Furthermore, native speakers have told me that when certain words are all used in succession if it doesn't sound right the tone can also change (there are rules for all this, but I'm not sure they are all set in stone or "written"). Anyways, I'm not good enough with the language to actually hear the differences too much just yet (I mean, when used in lengthy conversations). Maybe a native can chime in and help explain some of this and why tones change, etc.

(And you thought just LEARNING the tones was difficult ;) I think this is the part of the language that makes up for lack of verb conjugation...)

[Laska]

I believe ming2bai2 is Taiwan pronunciation whereas ming2bai is Mainland pronunciation.

As for tone sandhi (tone changes) they are very important, so you should start learning them early.

[Lu]

bai2 is second tone, so your textbook is right that it's ming2bai2, but most people (on the mainland) pronounce it ming2bai5, with bai in the neutral tone. On Taiwan people don't use the neutral tone that often, so then it's ming2bai2.

Just remember that bai2 is second tone of itself, and pronounce ming2bai5 or ming2bai2, whichever you're more comfortable with.

Shen2me is always with me5 in the neutral tone, I think, don't think I ever heard it pronounced shen2me4.

[Nibble]

Thanks, that clears it up for me.

你学习中文学了多久?

I took a short introductory class as an elective at my university last January, but I didn't take anything after that. I've just recently decided to resume studying, so I'm going over my old textbook & listening to Pimsleur Mandarin I.