freefall Posted September 9, 2006 at 03:09 PM Report Share Posted September 9, 2006 at 03:09 PM I'm in Beijing! Woot. Staying at the Far East International Youth Hostel. Here for only another day. Loving it. I am very much a beginner with Chinese, having studied it a bit but forgotten everything over the summer before I came anyway. But now I present my 3 grammar questions: What exactly is this 'r' thing at the end of words? It's a beijing habit right? My book doesn't explain it, however. Does adding 'r' to the end of a word like 'dian' -> 'dianr' always mean that the last consonant will be replaced with the 'r' sound? Second, I know that 'de' can be omitted after a personal pronoun and before a kinship term ('wo mama'). Are there more cases where it can be omitted? I see this in my book: "zai xiao gao jia ... " why no 'de' necessary? Finally, I noticed that people don't use a measure word for 'yuan' (kuai). Si yuan, er yuan, etc. Why no measure word necessary? Also no measure word with 'yi2 xia4' ... Thanks, now bed for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FSO Posted September 9, 2006 at 04:08 PM Report Share Posted September 9, 2006 at 04:08 PM What exactly is this 'r' thing at the end of words? It's a beijing habit right? My book doesn't explain it, however. Does adding 'r' to the end of a word like 'dian' -> 'dianr' always mean that the last consonant will be replaced with the 'r' sound? It is a Beijing thing (or at least a Beijing region thing). I won't go any further, since I'm no expert on this phenomenon. Second, I know that 'de' can be omitted after a personal pronoun and before a kinship term ('wo mama'). Are there more cases where it can be omitted? I see this in my book: "zai xiao gao jia ... " why no 'de' necessary? The example in your book is basically the same case as a kinship term. It could be "in Xiao Gao's family" or "in Xiao Gao's house", though even when meaning "house," "jia" literally means family. I haven't heard the "de" dropped when the technical word for house was used, i.e. "zai Xiao Gao de fangzi (li)". There are times when the possessive "de" is dropped when a noun phrase becomes particularly long or complex. It seems that the final "de" is the one which usually remains, though I'm sure the rules are considerably more nuanced than this. (Actually, I know they are; there are times you can drop the other "de"s, and times you can't.) Finally, I noticed that people don't use a measure word for 'yuan' (kuai). Si yuan, er yuan, etc. Why no measure word necessary? Also no measure word with 'yi2 xia4' ... The monetary units themselves are measure words. The actual noun, sometimes omitted in casual speech, is "qian" 钱. "yi xia" is a set phrase, and never takes a measure word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quest Posted September 9, 2006 at 07:17 PM Report Share Posted September 9, 2006 at 07:17 PM "yi xia" is a set phrase, and never takes a measure word. xia itself is the measure word 一下子, 两三下子 etc.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FSO Posted September 10, 2006 at 12:26 AM Report Share Posted September 10, 2006 at 12:26 AM xia itself is the measure word 一下子, 两三下子 etc.. Ahh, that explains it. Thanks for setting me straight! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freefall Posted September 10, 2006 at 08:23 AM Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2006 at 08:23 AM The example in your book is basically the same case as a kinship term. There's no personal pronoun--does that mean that jia, when used to mean family/house, never requires 'de' ? Are there any grammatical discussions of this that I missed and that you could point me to? I didn't find anything in a search but I hate to tread the same ground multiple times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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