adrianlondon Posted November 3, 2006 at 07:01 AM Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 at 07:01 AM I'm a frequent cyclist here in Beijing. Some drivers are stupid. Some cyclists are stupid. Some pedestrians are stupid. Although if I was in London I'd label most of the car drivers as arrogant, here I think it's just cluelessness coupled with a "why not? My car fits in the space, therefore I should be able to use it" mentality. That applies to cyclists and peds too, which is why queue jumping doesn't usually ellicit any angry backlash. I've seen cars drive badly, cutting people up so close that they would have hit had the other car not breaked. No horns. No anger. It's just accepted. I recently had a chat with a couple of people about what the driving test encompasses. You'd not be suprised to hear that it's all done in a driving-school yard and that you can get your licence without having ever driven on a real road. I had a mother and young child push infront of me in my favourite bubble tea place. I just barged in front of them. No complains from them at all - and no offence taken by anyone. Cycling (and life in general) in Beijing compared to London is both more frantic and more chilled at the same time. I don't really know how to describe it, but I've got it sussed and I'm really enjoying it here :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkKang Posted November 3, 2006 at 10:10 AM Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 at 10:10 AM Some drivers are stupid. Some cyclists are stupid. Some pedestrians are stupid. Although if I was in London I'd label most of the car drivers as arrogant, here I think it's just cluelessness coupled with a "why not? My car fits in the space, therefore I should be able to use it" mentality. That applies to cyclists and peds too, which is why queue jumping doesn't usually ellicit any angry backlash. If there is already a line at a window, I think most city people in China know to line up. In China, if people don't say anything to a flagrant line jumper, it's most likely because culturally, the are conditioned to 忍, or they are afraid. I bet too the offending driver of this thread knew he wasn't supposed to be driving there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lu Posted November 3, 2006 at 02:32 PM Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 at 02:32 PM Am I the only one who thinks she was consciously re-enacting that June 4 photo?You're not, the similarity did occur to me too :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gougou Posted November 3, 2006 at 04:36 PM Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 at 04:36 PM No hornsIn China??? I have never been able to witness that, reckless driving or not... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowdh Posted November 3, 2006 at 07:09 PM Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 at 07:09 PM Funny that today there was a bit in the letters section of the paper (well one of the papers) about londoners driving in the cycle lanes here... send her over it sounds like we need her here too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liuzhou Posted November 4, 2006 at 05:09 AM Report Share Posted November 4, 2006 at 05:09 AM I recently had a chat with a couple of people about what the driving test encompasses. You'd not be suprised to hear that it's all done in a driving-school yard and that you can get your licence without having ever driven on a real road. Even better, just buy a licence. No need to bother the driving school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flameproof Posted November 4, 2006 at 06:50 AM Report Share Posted November 4, 2006 at 06:50 AM as a foreigner it's best to go with the flow and not criticize your host country for differences with your own. 1. We don't know if she's a foreigner or not. 2. She did not criticize the host country, she criticized a single individual In China, far too many people look the other way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferno Posted November 5, 2006 at 05:51 PM Report Share Posted November 5, 2006 at 05:51 PM haha the guy in the sedan looked like some big shot who was used to getting his way. he probably made a few phone calls after that (sh) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlo Posted November 6, 2006 at 02:56 AM Report Share Posted November 6, 2006 at 02:56 AM 'm afraid I have to disagree with that. The breaking of laws, not to mention unwritten rules of etiquette and civility, are so universal here that I don't see how you can not say it is cultural. Don't know, I've witnessed too many similar scenes in which no foreigners were involved. Just a couple of days ago an ayi who works in our office building was exchanging very colourful insults witjh a taxi driver who would't stop to let her cross at the pedestrian crossing. They went on for at least ten minutes, I should have recorded the whole thing and posted it here. If there are no rules, one cannot in the same sentence blame a foreigner for not following the rules, including the unspoken ones ( 'do as the Romans do'). Chinese civilization after all prides itself on respecting the values of minorities and not forcing 'foreign guests' to behave like native Chinese. My feeling is that this "everybody for himself" phenomenon is largely a result of 100 years of social change, the Cultural Revolution and 30 years of "letting some get rich first", which causes people to believe that if you don't break the rules first, someone else will and you'll get the short end of the stick. What the Chinese may not like is a foreigner who has not experienced any of this and lives in Canada or Switzerland saying things like 'the Chinese are spineless'. But the great majority would still like to live in a more rule-based society (though probably not Switzerland). It's also popular to blame Confucius for these things, 无为政治 etc. Personally I think it's a long shot, but I won't go into that here. By the way, maybe the driver is just the lady's extranged husband and they're discussing about the custody of their child. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrianlondon Posted November 16, 2006 at 02:17 PM Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 at 02:17 PM http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2006-11/16/content_734463.htm Good on him. And he wasn't even quoted as saying he threw the bike of a "foreigner friend". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lu Posted November 16, 2006 at 02:55 PM Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 at 02:55 PM Hm, in the article it says it wasn't in fact a bike lane... So was the foreign lady wrong about that after all? I hope not... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hero Doug Posted November 16, 2006 at 03:28 PM Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 at 03:28 PM Yeah I noticed that as well. Good intentions, just not applied quite right. Really though, this is BeiJings fault, Cars and bikes aren't a good mix. I know they only have so much room to go around and it the best they can do etc etc, but it's just a perfect up for trouble, mainly someone getting knocked over by a car trying to get around them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTravel Posted November 17, 2006 at 06:09 PM Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 at 06:09 PM That's one told . . . . . only 1.5 billion more to educate Good luck! We have precisely the same problem all across the USA. If 1.5 billion stubborn Chinese can be converted, there might be some hope for changing the habits of 300 million US Citizens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HashiriKata Posted November 17, 2006 at 07:20 PM Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 at 07:20 PM (From the arcticle: )The incident ocurred after the woman confronted Niu, assuming he had been driving in a bicycles-only lane. Niu said had not violated any traffic rules. Traffic police testified that he had been driving on a road of mixed traffic, open to both cars and bicycles. No, this is impossible because we foreigners (ok, some kind of foreigners ) just can't be wrong. Anyway, even if the woman got it wrong, who cares? It's China after all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gougou Posted November 19, 2006 at 05:09 AM Report Share Posted November 19, 2006 at 05:09 AM Interesting to read that the woman was wrong to block the car (if the traffic police can be believed.) You should be very sure of what you're doing before you go educating people in their home territory... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bianfuxia Posted November 19, 2006 at 05:57 AM Report Share Posted November 19, 2006 at 05:57 AM Yeah I guess she did deserve to be physically assaulted by a much larger, stronger person... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HashiriKata Posted November 19, 2006 at 01:25 PM Report Share Posted November 19, 2006 at 01:25 PM It's interesting how things have turned out to be, which aren't very far from what I noted at the beginning of this thread ( and for which I was almost slaughtered by a gang of......"intellects" ). Thanks for the story about the US Army, I look forward to understanding its relevance one day. Even to this day, I'm still not sure you've managed it, Roddy, so here is for your benefit : Recall my story of the lawless American GI ramming the bike, and imagine what might happen if the driver of the car the woman was trying to obstruct was not a "spineless Chinese", but was someone in the mould of that lawless and retarded American GI. Got it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bianfuxia Posted November 19, 2006 at 02:25 PM Report Share Posted November 19, 2006 at 02:25 PM For all your own alleged intellect, HashiriKata, you still have failed to make remotely clear what you are getting at. You shouldn't gloat until you do. And, may we now assume that you condone and even congratulate the man for physically assaulting a woman? Are you really that kind of person? Maybe not, but that's what you convey. The entire thrust of your posts on this issue is that she got what she deserved. Frankly I think the guy was right to apologise for what he did to her. Don't you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skylee Posted November 19, 2006 at 02:31 PM Report Share Posted November 19, 2006 at 02:31 PM HashiriKata, thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowdh Posted November 19, 2006 at 09:39 PM Report Share Posted November 19, 2006 at 09:39 PM Yeah I guess she did deserve to be physically assaulted by a much larger, stronger person... And, may we now assume that you condone and even congratulate the man for physically assaulting a woman? Are you really that kind of person? no over reaction there then, I failed to see her being physically assaulted... when did he land a punch, slap or kick...??? all I saw was her bike being moved... or has assault been (politically correctly) redefined now to include the man handling of a bike...??? if so the next time someone knocks at my door I am calling the police to lay charges for assault... Frankly I think the guy was right to apologise for what he did to her. Don't you? apologise to the person making an ar$e of herself (if indeed the report is right in that she got it wrong)... dont you think it should be the other way around... perhaps it should be a rather tall horse she should be riding instead of that poor assaulted bike... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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