Resources for Chinese *word* etymology

[roddy]

Are there any recommended resources (I'm thinking probably a paper dictionary type thing) that will cover the origin and history of Chinese words rather than characters. For example, the ABC dictionary tells us that both 社会 and 逻辑 are loan words - what if I want to know where they were loaned from, first recorded use, etc. (those are just examples, by the way, no need to jump onto Google and start finding out )

Could be just a big dictionary - none of the ones on my desk have this kind of info - or something more specialized I guess. Character stuff is fairly easy to find, but to be honest the novelty of learning that putting a woman next to a child means good wore off some time ago . . .

[gato]

Maybe either 《辞源》or 《辞海》 has word origins. My 《应用汉语词典》 does indicate that 逻辑 is transliterated from "logic," but it doesn't say anything about the origin of 社会 (which, if I remember correctly, was originally coined by the Japanese during the Meiji era -- in Kanji, of course).

http://lib.verycd.com/2006/07/04/0000109371.html

辞海

http://lib.verycd.com/2005/04/26/0000048228.html

辞源

[adrianlondon]

As a tangential question, why are they called "loan" words? This implies that they're going to be "given back" at some point; I assume that means that their use is just temporary and that proper new words will be invented at some point.

[gougou]

This implies that they're going to be "given back" at some point

Not very familiar with the Chinese banking sector, are you?

[roddy]

Looks promising, but I need to download fonts for Acrobat, at about 1 character per minute. Will get back to you . . .

[in_lab]

It's been about two years, so hopefully those fonts are finished downloading. But seriously, did you find the word etymologies in 辞源 or 辞海? I've been searching for this kind of thing online with no success.

[holger]

I remember seeing this relatively new dictionary. Has anybody had a look into it?

ABC Etymological Dictionary of Old Chinese - 2006

http://books.google.de/books?id=nIvqAC7FNBQC&printsec=frontcover&dq=abc+etymological+dictionary+of+old+chinese

[roddy]

I honestly can't remember if I got those or not. Sorry.

[Daan]

I remember seeing this relatively new dictionary. Has anybody had a look into it?

ABC Etymological Dictionary of Old Chinese - 2006

http://books.google.de/books?id=nIvq...of+old+chinese

Yes, I have. It's an excellent dictionary, although if you're looking for detailed information on the etymology of words in Mandarin or other modern Chinese languages, it's probably not going to be what you're looking for. It deals with Old Chinese, which is the language of the Shijing, Shujing and the bronze inscriptions found in ever greater numbers these days.

(I also seem to remember this book was published in 2007 rather than 2006, but Google Books insists it was published in 2006)

[889]

"Why are they called 'loan' words? This implies that they're going to be 'given back' at some point."

English, thankfully, has the OED, which always seems to come through and address questions like this:

"As applied to the adoption of foreign words or customs, [borrow] properly implies that the adoption is merely temporary; but this restriction is now often disregarded, esp. by writers on philology."

[gato]

There is the 近现代汉语新词词源词典, which is mentioned in this thread:

http://www.pkucn.com/viewthread.php?tid=171222

http://www.amazon.cn/mn/detailApp?qid=1246521423&ref=SR&sr=13-1&uid=475-8059307-5037113&prodid=zjbk239975

近现代汉语新词词源词典

作者:香港中国语文学会

　本书是第一部严格意义上的汉语词源词典，主要收录19世纪初期至20世纪中期所出现的一部分汉语新词，共5275条。其中有些词条，要上溯到明末清初传教士入华时代。为编写本书，设置了专用的语料库，广泛收集有关资料，充分吸收现有研究成果。