Cantonese pronunciation?

[Pravit]

Recently I thought it would be fun to learn a little bit of Cantonese. I've been using the FSI courses provided on this website(BTW, I think it is amazing that a single website has so much actual structured language-learning content - props to the site owners!), but people have told me the pronunciation seems a bit dated: that is, they still pronounce the "n"'s, initial "ng", and high falling tone. Will I be ridiculed if I speak in this way or should I try to imitate the more modern sound shifts? Do Cantonese speakers on the mainland still pronounce their "n" and "ng", or do they speak like in Hong Kong?

Another question - I've heard many people referring to Cantonese as "baihua". What characters would this be written with? I couldn't imagine it being "白话", as I thought that's the standard term for vernacular (Mandarin) Chinese.

[skylee]

but people have told me the pronunciation seems a bit dated: that is, they still pronounce the "n"'s, initial "ng", and high falling tone. Will I be ridiculed if I speak in this way or should I try to imitate the more modern sound shifts?

The other day when I had lunch with my boss and she talked about her daughter, I was a bit surprised by the heavy "n" she used when she said "女", and then I thought, "oh how pure her Cantonese pronunciation is". And whenever I meet people (mostly young salespeople) who drop the "ng" (like turning "ngo" to "o", but I think somehow they cannot pronounce it for some reasons) and use "l' instead of "n", I would think, "oh, 懶音". I don't think you will be ridiculed (we usually keep what we think to ourselves ). You needn't imitate the "modern sound shifts" as they are not respected.

I've heard many people referring to Cantonese as "baihua". What characters would this be written with? I couldn't imagine it being "白话",

Yes it is “白話”.

[wai ming]

I get the impression that some sound shifts in Cantonese are more "acceptable" than others. For example, n --> l seems very common, particularly with words like 你 and 女, whereas dropping initial ng-'s seems less common, and dropping w's (eg gwok --> gok) also seems less common/acceptable. Also, while the high falling tone seems to have merged with the high level tone in most cases, it can still be heard fairly frequently with some words, eg 添.

This is just my personal impression, I'm not a native speaker, and since I haven't lived in either HK or Guangzhou, I can't really say whether the above observations also apply there - perhaps someone else would like to comment on that.

Personally, I try not to be too "lazy" with my speech, particularly since I realised my mum has slightly more trouble understanding lazy sounds (considering that I'm a learner and not particularly fluent in my speech) and both my mum and boyfriend will correct me if I drop initial ng's (they are both Malaysian Chinese).

[Aweni]

I've heard many people referring to Cantonese as "baihua". What characters would this be written with? I couldn't imagine it being "白话",

yes,and we also say "粤语"

[flameproof]

For example, n --> l seems very common, particularly with words like 你

True. In books it's often (always??) written as "nei" - but I never ever heard it. It's always "lei".

Do Cantonese speakers on the mainland still pronounce ....

Cantonese is a separate language with several sub dialects. Beside the regional HK/PRC streams you will also find overseas streams in UK and USA. Overseas Chinese tend to speak mainly Cantonese.

[pazu]

I have never heard people refering Cantonese as Baihua 白話 in Hong Kong but it's common in mainland China.

But I do get an impression that if some people told me they could speak "Baihua", it means they speak with a different accent (e.g. from Nanning, Guangxi Province).

I remember many years ago a guy asked me if I could speak Baihua, I thought he was asking if I could speak Baihuawen (written form of daily spoken Mandarin. popularized after 1919), I told him no, I said I spoke Cantonese.

[Quest]

Pazu, it used to be that way.. people who came to Guangzhou were expected to learn the language, but not when millions flock in within a few years time.

[atitarev]

True. In books it's often (always??) written as "nei" - but I never ever heard it. It's always "lei".

It's also pronounced that way on audio recordings I have. There were comments in the textbook (eg. Teach Yourself Cantonese) that you might here L instead of N and other variations as mentioned above but they are not standard.

[pazu]

Quest, same here in Hong Kong, only people with an Asian face are expected to learn Cantonese in Hong Kong, my English teacher who claimed to have been staying in Hong Kong for 22 years, a Brit, speak no Cantonese. I'm just astonished!