Does China have a godparent custom?

[alcat]

My husband and I are planning to adopt a baby girl from China. We have a Chinese friend who we'd like to ask to be the baby's godmother. My sister will legally be responsible for the child if something should happen to my husband and I, so the godmother role is intended purely to be a gesture of our affection for our friend, as well as a tie for the baby to her Chinese roots.

Does China have a godparent custom? Can anyone explain how the role differs (if at all) in Chinese culture? Any suggestions on how most tactfully to present the offer to our friend?

Thanks...Jill.

[liuzhou]

No.

[gato]

The Chinese have something similar in 干妈(gan ma) and 干爹 (gan die), non-relatives who take on a parent-like role towards one's child. But there is no religious basis for it like it does for Catholics. It's more an an extra set of hands to help with your kid in case something untoward happens to you or your spouse. It's also a way to strengthen family alliances.

See here:

http://www.chinahistoryforum.com/index.php?showtopic=10065&pid=4791337&mode=threaded&start=

Chinese "godparent" equivalent??

http://en.wikilib.com/wiki/Godparent

Godparent

[alcat]

Thanks. I should have mentioned that our friend is Cantonese. I read in the link you provided that there may be a distinction in Cantonese between the words Gan die/Gan ma and niang. Can anyone explain this? When we present our offer, we would like to use the most applicable term to convey that we have no expectations from the godparents apart from being a friend and advisor to our child.

[johnmck]

Don't godparents have to be Christian? The idea behind godparents is that they help the parents bring-up the child in the Christian faith (although I have to admit I have never spoken with my godchildren about Christianity). I would have thought that the tradition of godparents is not linked to the nationality of the person but to their faith.

[boiten_valise]

yeah, I think john mck is right.

[Lu]

the godmother role is intended purely to be a gesture of our affection for our friend, as well as a tie for the baby to her Chinese roots.

I think that if you explain it to your friend like this, it should be fine.

[startide]

Are you not refering to the role of the 'kay ma" (hakka) or 'Kai ma" (cantonese). Sorry I don't write chinese.

[Ian_Lee]

They are 契爺 (godfather) and 契媽 (godmother) in Cantonese.

But you should absolutely refrain using the term 契弟. It is a big humiliation if you label a guy as 契弟!

In HK, godparent custom is still quite common especially among the celebrities.

P.S. 契 means a kind of verbal or written contractual obligation. It is much more meaningful than 乾 in Mandarin.

[startide]

It quite difficult for me to express myself here on this issue as I don't write chinese. It is still very common here in Malaysia for chinese to have godparents (in what ever chinese terms). This may be done due to some religious believes (I don't really know the details as I am a christian). Godparents are howver very common in christianity and my son has 2 godparents; one in Canada and the other one here in Malaysia. I know about the terms Kai ya or Kai ma mainly from hearing called made by people or from movies.

[xichg]

in my hometown many children have 干爹干妈（godparents）. Some of them may have more than one. Most of the time the godparents are close friends of the child's bio-parents so it's out of friendship. But some 'smart' parents are also using this to establish relationships with people in power who ahave a lot of pulls. And when choosing godparents for the child, if possible people with surname 刘(liu) are always preferred. And also if possible, try to avoid people with surname 王(wang). These are some general rules and of course they are not absolute.

[startide]

Xichg, it will be interesting if you could kindly tell us more as to why Liu is prefered and why Wang should be avoided.

[gato]

Probably for the same reason a lot of Chinese people think the number 6 is lucky and the number 4 unlucky. 刘(liu) sounds like "溜“ (as in 顺溜/smooth), which is imagined to help one lead a smooth and trouble-free life, whereas 王 sounds like “亡” (death), which is thought to be unlucky for some reason.

[startide]

Thanks. Wang or sometime spelled as Wong sound more like prosperous. Here we have one housing development named as Wang Kok to mean prosperous corner. I guess it is a matter of interpretation.

[gato]

Wang or sometime spelled as Wong sound more like prosperous

In that case, you are intepretating Wang/Wong to be 旺 of 兴旺 (xing1 wang4). It probably depends on which dialect you are using to pronounce the words.

[trevelyan]

I think the traditional religious role of the god-parent is supposed to be assuming the sins of the child until they get confirmed. Which raises the question of what happens if they don't.

[muyongshi]

Aside from the Catholic tradition I know of many people in China (aka my Chinese friends) that their parent didn't "give" them a 干爹干妈 but in their teens they took them on themselves as their 干爹干妈 because of how close they were to them so while this may be an equivalent, I think the rules are much looser.

[xichg]

I think the preference of 刘(liu) and dislike of 王(wang) to be the godparents speak to parent's fear of early death of their children. Early death of children due to disease and accidents used to be a big problem and quite common in rural China.. The situation improved a lot after Mao and his army came to power and trained many village doctors （赤脚医生）and established a rudimentary but effective medicare system. (sorry for the Commie propraganda, not intending to offend anyone). However, these costoms survived. 刘(liu) is still preferred because it sounds just like 留(to keep). So when you entrust your child to some 刘(lius), they will ensure this child will be kept so the God of Death can't take him/her away. 王(wang) as somebody already pointed out sounds exactly like 亡(wang). You can imagine in a time when children death was prevalent people don't want to entrust their children to 亡(wang)'s hands. When I was young the image of 干妈 in my mind was always a kind old lady with surname 刘(liu) who is loving and have a lot of food for children. This is strange since I never had a 干爹干妈. My grandmother on my father's side has surname 刘 and she has a 干儿子 (godson). My grandmother on my mother's side is a 王 (wang), and sure enough, nobody came to her with their children asking her to be the godmother.

This fear of children's death also explained why people give their children ugly or even disgusting names. In my village we have 狗娃(puppy)，狗蛋(dog's testicle，粪堆(a pile of crap) and of course the ubiquitous cats （大猫（毛）， 二猫（毛）， 三毛......) Once again these kind of names are common among villagers born before 1949 the year when Mao came to power. The reasoning behind these names is that to deceive the God of Death into thinking that the children were just some mere animals so they will skip the children, or that God of Death like us will try to stay away from disgusting things.

Another interesting thing is parents always tell the children that they don't have a waist. The following conversation between my mother and me happened many times when I was little.

me: 妈，我腰疼。(mum, my waist/low back hurts)

mother: 胡说。小孩儿没腰。(nonsense. children don't have a waist.)

This really puzzled me for more than 20 years and the answer didn't come until a couple of weeks ago. I was having dinner with a few friends and I told about this interesting conversation between me and my mother and found out it's not unique to my hometown. My friends from 山东 (shandong) and 陕西 (shannxi) both confirmed the same conversation between them and their parents. And better yet, they provided me one explanation. 腰(yao, waist) sounds like 夭(yao) in 夭折(yaozhe, untimely death of children). That's why parents don't like this sound, especially when it's from their children.

I generally find this kind of customs interesting. They have been there for a long time and people are still observing them even if they don't really understand the reasons behind them. And it's a rewarding process to dig a little bit deeper and try to find the explanation. It can be quite fun. Just when I am writing this post I begin to thinkt the word 胡 very interesting. From the vocabulary in my hometown's dialect, you can picture how the 胡 people (barbarians in northern china) were peiceived by the Han Chinese. Their languages were 胡白，胡话，胡言乱语；The way they speak is 胡扯, 胡说，胡说八道；The way they behave is 胡来，胡抡，胡弄. You can almost see how the dynamics of interaction between Han Chinese and the Hus. They were looked down upon, laughed at in every aspect of life. If you are a Hu living among the Han Chinese at that time you must be under a lot of pressure. Maybe that's why they were so active to be assimilated into Han Chinese. And maybe if the western media keep painting China and Chinese as evil, devious and incomprenhensible, more and more Chinese will be happy to be assimilated into Western culture. I for one, would like to just do that.

[gato]

In my village we have 粪堆(a pile of crap)

Boy or girl? Can't tell from the name.

If you are a Hu living among the Han Chinese at that time you must be under a lot of pressure.

Interesting. Has there been another Hu who led China before the current one? Li seems to be a popular emperor name.

[muyongshi]

And maybe if the western media keep painting China and Chinese as evil, devious and incomprenhensible, more and more Chinese will be happy to be assimilated into Western culture. I for one, would like to just do that.

So how does that explain all the white boys posing as asian. Getting the character tats, wearing a dragon on everything or...need I go on?