Does Pimsleur use standard pronunciation?

[muyongshi]

I live in 四川 and they add the 二音 in some pretty odd places. It's not incorrect but they don't follow a rule when doing it.

My teachers have taught me there are certain words that should (meaning more often than not) be used with an 二音 (for example 陷 unfortunately that's one of the ones I can't actually say with the 二音).

And as long as gato mentioned the news anchors having standard mandarin (which he's right) but one thing they don't use standard (and by standard i mean dictionary) is the use of an 啊. This 啊 is supposed to take on the sound of the last syllable in the word before it but most people don't. (Can i get a confirmation on that gato- my teachers are always talking about that). i.e. if you have a 去啊 the "a" should be pronounced "wa" (if i'm not mistaken).

[gato]

This 啊 is supposed to take on the sound of the last syllable in the word before it but most people don't. (my teachers are always talking about that).

Never heard of this. Does it take on the vowel or the consonant before it?

Why don't most people do it, if this is standard?

i.e. if you have a 去啊 the "a" should be pronounced "wa" (if i'm not mistaken).

Isn't 去啊 pronounced as "qu a"? Where does the "wa" come from?

[muyongshi]

Should take on the last syllable consonant or vowel (see below).

All my teachers say that it is "standard" Chinese but even they don't do it. They don't do it because it is harder for one and languages as a whole tend to slide towards the lazy side after awhile.

The "wa" comes because if you run the two words together the ending sound of the qu mixed with an "a" creates a "wa" sound. You can try it by puckering up and saying a qu and holding the sound and then keep the sound as you open up to the "a". You can here the start of the sound and so then you would have to emphasize to get the whole "wa" sound.

A few more are:

any "i" sounds i.e. mai would be said "ya"

any "g" or "ng" i.e. fang would also take on a throatal (how do you spell it??????) g sound (don't know how to type it)

any "hi" sounds i.e. chi or shi would be said "ra"

I swear I'm not lying

[gato]

I see what you mean. But I would pronounce 去啊 as "qu ya" instead of "qu wa". Remember "qu" is really pronounced as "qyu" and not "qwu". Pronounced this way, 去啊 would sound just like 去呀.

[muyongshi]

I haven't mastered or memorized them all yet so I could be remembering wrong on that one.

I will confirm with my teacher today.

[muyongshi]

Hey Gato I checked to be sure (typing and speaking are different sections of my brain I think) and the qu a is a "ya". A "wa" would be under any "ao" type sound. I.e. "bao a" would be said "bao wa".

[gato]

any "i" sounds i.e. mai would be said "ya"

any "g" or "ng" i.e. fang would also take on a throatal (how do you spell it??????) g sound (don't know how to type it)

any "hi" sounds i.e. chi or shi would be said "ra"

I don't think it's really a rule. Rather, if you say the 啊 really fast after the preceding vowel, you'll get a hybrid sound -- i.e ya, na, ra, what have you.

[muyongshi]

Ask a Chinese linguistic (by that I mean a Chinese person who studies Chinese) and they will tell you it is a dictionary standard Chinese rule (one that is being debated about dropping it) but none the less it is.

[atitarev]

L-F-J:

hasnt it been discussed that standard mandarin uses some erhua- such as zher, nar, yidianr? these are all standard mandarin. although, not using them is also standard mandarin.

but these and perhaps a few others are the extent of erhua used in mandarin. if its loaded with erhua its probably beijing dialect. if it doubles as in yidiandian, its likely southern tendency. (which can easily be turned off or on depending on where you are)

but standard mandarin is a rather soft dialect which does in fact have a few erhua in it.

i'd say pimsleur indeed uses standard mandarin pronunciation. it uses just the few erhua that are found in proper mandarin.

I am not sure your point has been agreed on. I would also like to know. There seems to be more than one standard. Are zher, nar and yidianr considered standard?

[gato]

There seems to be more than one standard. Are her, nar and yidianr considered standard?

Er-hua is part of the standard for the national PUTONGHUA PROFICIENCY TEST, so it is standard in a way, though most non-northerners don't use it. Since Putonghua has only been the national language/dialect for a few decades, the standard is really still a work-in-progress.

Here is a list of "standard" er-hua words used for the Putonghua Proficiency Test.

http://datum.studyget.com/sh/200611/20061117_40051.shtml

普通话水平测试用儿化词语表

Some discussions about having er-hua as part of standard Mandarin:

http://www.pkucn.com/archiver/?tid-109421.html

为什么儿化韵也是普通话标准之一

http://www.jxedu.gov.cn/bmgz/yywz/7773339/2007/07/9812.html

谈普通话水平测试中儿化韵测试项的效度和信度

[atitarev]

Thanks for the excellent links, Gato!

[dotherighthing]

I just want to highlight following points

1. with "er" is not recommended way to learn Chinese at the beginning stage, following the most formal and standard way " without er" in majority situation.

2. When your Chinese is good enough, you can pick up some popular words with "er" as most of Beijing residence did ( actually not all north part of China)

3. Thinking about British accent and American accent, it could be most exact metaphor for this case. ( American pronunication gives a lot of "r", while it is opposite in UK)

[atitarev]

1. with "er" is not recommended way to learn Chinese at the beginning stage, following the most formal and standard way " without er" in majority situation.

I want to learn how to say 玩儿 at the beginning stage, if it's part of the HSK test, is part of 99% of Mandarin textbooks published in mainland China and is also used on TV. Learning to say 玩儿 without 儿 is not hard to suit the majority of situations in the south of China or Taiwan.

[Shane Moore]

I find this to be a very interesting discussion. I am in the very early stages of study of Mandarin. Personally, from a purely aesthetic standpoint, I am drawn to the Beijing accent and pronunciation, however, as most of my time is spent in Hong Kong and Guangdong, it makes more sense for me to learn the forms spoken there.

I have just purchased Pimsleur and will use it as a base in my studies. Since I am considering a move to either Hong Kong or Shenzhen, I want to at least have something to build on once I get there on a full-time basis and start more formal lessons. Any suggested resources for other self-study would be greatly appreciated.

[griz326]

I just came back from China and was terribly disappointed at what I learned with Pimsleur. Almost none of the phrases I had learned could be understood. Of course, I was in the south and the west and I know that would be a bit troublesome...but I expected a little better ROI.