HongKong vs. Guangdong

[CheukMo]

How different is living in HongKong from Guangzhou or Shenzhen? I know the cost of living is higher in 香港. What would any other differences be?

Thanks in advance,

卓武

[Senzhi]

Think of Hong Kong as if you were in England.

Think of the remainder of China as if you were ... well ... in China.

The only thing that reminds me of Hong Kong being Chinese is the flag. Everything else has had little change since their return to China.

Of course I'm overgeneralising, but it should give you a clear point of understanding.

[cming]

I also pondered this question when I first arrived in Hong Kong...

I like to think of Hong Kong as "pretend China". It's easy to get around, it doesn't have the extremes of China - the population that you see on the street is young and growing, and the standard of living is absolutely higher, although, slightly cramped from my experience.

People generally obey the laws . . . and well you don't see too many cows or livestock on the freeways either.

It is however, absolutely more expensive and you will probably want to take a trip to Shenzhen for cheap shopping, and a sanity check, not to mention to practice your Mandarin. When I lived in Hong Kong, my Cantonese was way better than my mandarin.

Hope this helps . . . :-) By the way if you have a choice between Guangzhou, and Shenzhen, definitely go for Shenzhen, its a more modern city, and closer to Hong Kong also.

[gato]

Think of Hong Kong as if you were in England.

Think of the remainder of China as if you were ... well ... in China.

Not a huge deal, but I would try to refrain from this line of "HK is not really China" shorthand, at least if you are talking to Chinese people, some of whom may find it offensive, particuarly if you say it as if China were a bad word (on another thread about places to study Mandarin, it was said that "Taipei is not China."). It would be like saying "NYC is not the US" or "London is not Britain" or "Brussel is not Belgium," or any one of the many possible variations. It's a cute line and an easy shorthand, but it's more false than true when you really examine the people and the culture, and this way of speaking touches some raw sensibilities considering China's history. There will be differences between any two places. But is really HK more similiar to London than, say, Shanghai? HKers more similar to Londoners than Shanghainese?

[Senzhi]

Gato,

I fully agree with you. I was intentionally overgeneralising. And of course, not meaning to offend anyone.

However, I personally feel the whole HK situation to be offending to the Chinese people in itself: How would you feel having to pass immigration if you would have to visit another city in your country? How would you feel if foreigners would be allowed to stay three times longer in that city without visa than you?

Maybe my thinking is different, because I'm a member of the EU and its Shengen agreement: no borders, free trade.

Hong Kong IS China. I just would like to feel it a little bit more that way.

[CheukMo]

It is however, absolutely more expensive and you will probably want to take a trip to Shenzhen for cheap shopping, and a sanity check, not to mention to practice your Mandarin. When I lived in Hong Kong, my Cantonese was way better than my mandarin.

Learning Cantonese would be the major reason for my trip to HK or Shenzhen. What prompted my question was a friend who lived in the US when I met him now lives in HK says that I should try other parts of Asia or the Mainland. He says that HK "isn't like it was" and "it isn't as good as most seem to think". I don't know what he means by this and I'm afraid to ask why he thinks this.

謝謝

卓武

[Senzhi]

Cheuk Mo,

HK is indeed a good place to learn Cantonese. But don't forget that very slowly but steady, Cantonese is being pushed away by the official language: Mandarin.

It's also a beautiful city of its own kind.

I remember I was dissappointed when I arrived there the first time: arriving in Central, all I could see was a huge shopping centre with the biggest brand names in the world ... and absolutely not cheap at all.

But like any other city, if you stay away from the major business and tourist areas, you will indeed see that Hong Kong also has its own culture and can be fun.

Your taste might be different than any friend or relative (or any of us posting on this forum). The only way for you to know is to take the chance and visit HK for yourself. And that counts for Shenzhen and Guangzhou too. In fact, for any place in the world.

[CheukMo]

I am somehow drawn to Hong Kong although I don't know exactly why. There are some definite reasons, such as learning Cantonese, but it is as much a dream or an aspiration as it is for that. I know that Cantonese is being replaced by Mandarin. After I get a good grasp of Cantonese I will probably start learning Mandarin. I know this may be seen as imperialist or some other type of offensive statement but I think Britain handing HK back to the PRC was wrong. Maybe it should have been made into another "Republic of China" as both the ROC- Taiwan and the PRC are. Maybe it could have been a part of the British Commonwealth but autonomous with a Chinese (or HKnese) government like Canada or Australia. Being an American, I can see how that may be seen negatively as we were the first of the British colonies to break away.

[gato]

However, I personally feel the whole HK situation to be offending to the Chinese people in itself: How would you feel having to pass immigration if you would have to visit another city in your country? How would you feel if foreigners would be allowed to stay three times longer in that city without visa than you?

It's bad, but probably a necessary measure to prevent all of mainland from moving to HK at once (the island may sink under the weight). The great economic disparity between HK and the mainland makes open access difficult. It used to be next to impossible for mainlanders to go to HK a few years ago (someone I knew found it easier to go to HK via the US), but today it's a bit easier, as residents of 44 mainland cities can obtain passes (通行证) to go into HK without too much hassle, and you are starting to see many mainland tourists in HK. And there's talk of creating a greater Shenzhen-HK metropolitan area and allowing Shenzhen residents free access into HK.

[Mugi]

you will probably want to take a trip to Shenzhen for ... a sanity check...

Wow, that's the first time I've heard someone say that - it's usually the other way around - people cross the border to HK for a sanity check.

By the way if you have a choice between Guangzhou, and Shenzhen, definitely go for Shenzhen, its a more modern city, and closer to Hong Kong also.

This is purely a matter of preference. I personally can't think of a city worse than Shenzhen. It has no soul, no history; everyone is out to shaft everyone else. It's typical of an immigrant city. No-one cares about anyone else. It feels fake (which is only natural for a place with only 20 odd years of history and practically no native inhabitants). I much prefer Guangzhou, especially the older quarters. Has a genuine feel about it. At the end of the day, it's each to his own.

[johnd]

I personally can't think of a city worse than Shenzhen. It has no soul, no history; everyone is out to shaft everyone else.

eeeeee, pretty harsh I reckon, although as you say it's a matter of preference. Shenzhen may seem like this to a visitor, but I think it's a pretty good place to live. Shenzhen in an immigrant city that attracts people from all over China - mostly those with a can-do attitude. You can experience lots of different Chinese cultures, and it's the best place to eat every kind of Chinese food. Shenzhen has an excellent customer service ethos, it's reasonably clean and green, free parks, great shopping, and the bureaucracy is probably better than other places. I wouldn't say people care more or care less about others on the street than anywhere else in China.

[Mugi]

I wouldn't say people care more or care less about others on the street than anywhere else in China.

Then you probably haven't lived in another city in China with a long history...

Not that the phenomenon is restricted to China. In my experience it's true wherever you go in the world. Cities with large immigrant populations are typically "cold" and have a very high crime rate.

I have never lived in Shenzhen, but I have travelled through it and stayed there enough times to know that I would never what to live in such an artificial environment - there's no "human" side to it. I can see the attraction for some people though. The cleanliness, allure of money, modernity ... I guess I prefer the more tranditional China.

[cming]

The cleanliness, allure of money, modernity ... I guess I prefer the more tranditional China

Having lived in both Shenzhen, and Hong Kong the main reason I said go to Shenzhen is that on the 5 occassions I went to Guangzhou, I had, or saw a bad experience.

Firstly I saw the police hitting a taxi driver's car with their battons (guess he must have parked in the wrong place), but my impression was not good. Another time the bus broke down and they couldn't open the doors, so we ended up having to jump out the window. The shops generally seemed to have less of an international flavour in Guangzhou.

CheukMo: Now that I know you are going for studying Cantonese, I'd probably go for Hong Kong for sure, followed very closely by Guangzhou. Having said that, Guangzhou is a very solid option as you will be less tempted to speak English if that is one of your goals. Having zero Mandarin ability, and after having studied Cantonese for 2 years, I certainly found that my Cantonese was more useful in Guangzhou, especially for negotiating prices!

The only other thing would be to find a good school/teacher for Cantonese in Guangzhou, could be a challenge!

[CheukMo]

CheukMo: Now that I know you are going for studying Cantonese, I'd probably go for Hong Kong for sure, followed very closely by Guangzhou. Having said that, Guangzhou is a very solid option as you will be less tempted to speak English if that is one of your goals. Having zero Mandarin ability, and after having studied Cantonese for 2 years, I certainly found that my Cantonese was more useful in Guangzhou, especially for negotiating prices!

The only other thing would be to find a good school/teacher for Cantonese in Guangzhou, could be a challenge!

唔該, <-----

卓武