How to romanise 能 , 空?

[paulwan]

I am devising a way to represent 能 in a user-friendly way (to unprepared English-educated people, including many overseas Chinese). I propose 'nerng4' because the usual 'nang4' might be mistaken to rhyme with the English "hang". Comments welcomed.

Similarly,

'derng2 等' (instead of 'dang2') for "wait";

'herng6 恒' (instead of 'hang6') for "constant";

'gerng3 更' (instead of 'gang3) for the comparative;

'merng6 孟' (instead of 'mang6') for Mencius;

'perng4 朋’(instead of 'pang4') for "friend";

etc.

Also, how about

'hohng 空' (instead of 'hung') for "space", "empty";

'fohng 风' (instead of 'fung') for "wind";

'gohng 工' (instead of 'gung') for "work";

'dohng 东' (instead of 'dung') for "east";

'lohng' (instead of 'lung') for "hole", "crevice";

etc.?

These departures from the usual romanisation make one take note and are more intuitive, I think. No?

btw, this system is nicknamed "I.Can.Spell" for Integrated Cantonese Spelling because it picks the best from the Yale, Sidney Lau, S.L. Wong, Jyutping, Hong Kong Standard Cantonese, and others.

[in_lab]

If it's anything beyond a one or two-day class, I would trust a teacher more who used one of the established systems instead of inventing his own. Is there a special reason why you would like to create a new system?

[paulwan]

Yes. Of course if one takes the trouble to learn a system like Jyut6jyt3 ping3yam or the LSHK's, etc, one gets there eventually. I want one that is intuitively obvious, consistent (which most romanisation systems are), friendly to an uninitated English-educated person (which includes many overseas Chinese) and does not have befuddling visuals like "jyutjyu" or "tz" or "qin" or "dz", etc. It should be immediately usable with the minimum of instruction and initiation.

I hope "I.Can.Spell" wii meet these requirements and will post a proposed chart of Cantonese final sounds soon. (btw, I am also having a similar discussion in cantonese.sheik.com.uk)

[paulwan]

Draft Table of Cantonese finals in I.Can.Spell

'ah'.......'er'......'air'.......'ay'....'ee'.....'oh'.......'or'.......[eu].......'oo'.........ü

aa爸.................eh姐................ee二..............aw我.....eu靴.....oo姑.....ue雨...元音

aai快.....ai弟......ei四......................................oi爱..................ooi每................-i

aau包....au九...........................iu要....ou老......<--..........................................-u

........................................................oey去...............<--...............................-y

aam三...um音....em舐..............im店.............................................................-m

aan慢....an人.....en円...............in天....oan春....on安....<--........oon本...uen元...-n

aang生..erng更..ehng井..ing英..<--.....ohng同...ong方..eung上...<--...................-ng

aap鴨....ap十.....ep夾...............ip葉..............................................................-p

aat八.....at一............................it熱....oat出.....ot喝....<--.........oot没....uet月....-t

aak拍....ak北.....ek石.....ik益.....<--.....oak六....ok惡....eok脚....<--...................-k

Notes:

1. Items in red colour denote departure from the Standard Cantonese Romanization of Hong Kong.

2. Two new columns, 'ay' and 'oh', have been inserted, modifying the conventional Cantonese vowel chart.

3. Arrows (<--) show where the sounds in the 2 new columns come from, in the conventional vowel chart.

4. Comments welcomed.

Reasons for the variance (going top to bottom, left to right of the table):

1. 'um' is proposed instead of 'am' because in English chum, dum, gum, hum, jum, kum, lum, ngum, sum, tum, um, yum are more like the Cantonese short 'a' than cham, dam, gam, ham, jam, kam, lam, ngam, sam, tam, yam.

2. The representation of the 'an' sound with the short 'a' is in fact problematic but so far for computer input 'an' appears the best option.

3. Similarly 'ang' with the short 'a' is problematic. However 'erng' is more unambiguous than 'ang'. ('ung' might be a candidate but is already used in other Cantonese romanisation systems.)

4. The 'h' in 'eh' is used to indicate that 'e' is not to be mistaken as an 'ee' sound.

5. 'ehng' is used to distinguish it from 'eng' because the later is used in hanyu pinyin. The 'eh' in 'ehng' serves as a prompt for the 'air' sound in 'ehng'.

6. Sounds 'ing' and 'ik' are displaced from the 'ee' to a new 'ay' column to highlight the fact that 'i' in both of them are more an 'ay' sound than an 'ee' sound.

7. 'ee' is used in place of 'i' for unambiguity and also to distinguish the Cantonese 'see' from the hanyu pinyin 'si' which is not pronounced as 'see'.

8. The 6th column is created to accommodate the 'oh' sound. It is populated by finals which are conventionally (but incorrectly, in my opinion) put in one of the 3 columns to the immediate right.

9. 'ou' is conventionally placed in the 'or' column (conventionally spelt 'o').

10. 'oey' is conventionally spelt 'oei' and placed in the 'eu' column (conventionally 'oe').

11. 'oan' (conventionally spelt 'oen') looks and rhymes with the English 'loan', 'moan' and is conventionally placed in the 'eu' column from which it is displaced into the 'oh' column.

12. 'ohng' is conventionally spelt 'ung' and is displaced from the 'oo' column (conventionally 'u'). because it is not pronounced as 'oong'.

13. 'oat' (conventionally spelt 'oet') looks and rhymes with the English 'oat', 'moat', 'boat' and is displaced from the 'eu' column.

14. 'oak' (conventionally spelt 'uk') looks and rhymes with the English 'oak', 'soak', and is displaced from the 'oo' column. It is not intuitively obvious that chuk, duk, guk, huk, juk, kuk, luk, muk, uk, suk, yuk rhyme with the English 'oak'.

15. 'aw' (conventionally spelt 'o') looks and rhymes with the English 'law', 'saw', 'haw' and is spelt thus for unambiguity.

16. 'eu' (conventionally spelt 'oe) is a peculiarly Cantonese sound and the spelling is retained as 'eu' because Sidney Lau and other Hong Kong people conventionally use it. Also spelling it as 'oe' might make it mistakenly pronounced to rhyme with the English 'hoe', 'sew'.

17. 'eok' could have been spelt 'euk' but it is felt that the former is more intuitive. Its conventional spelling 'oek' might be mistakenly pronounced to rhyme with the English 'oak'.

18. The 'oo' column (conventionally spelt 'u') is spelt thus for unambiguity.

19. The ü sound is difficult to represent. 'ue' is chosen because it is in common usage in Hong Kong and looks friendlier than the alternative 'yu'. e.g. 'tuen' is more intuitive than 'tyun'; or 'kuen' with 'kyun'; or 'juen' with 'jyun', in my opinion.

20. The objective is to come up with a system that is intuitively obvious to an untutored or uninitiated person conversant in English and incorporates the better aspects of existing systems while discarding some of the more undesirable aspects, hence the name "integrated" in I.Can.Spell.