Is it my fault if my husband's Chinese speaking isn't improved?

[strawberry_only]

Here is the story: My husband is English, and I am Chinese. we live in the UK, my husband desires to speak fluent Chinese but he find it hard to achive. I would say his Chinese level is more than basic but less than intermediate(even though he thinks that his Chinese is advanced but I wouldn't say so).

my husband thinks the only way to improve his oral Chinese is to speak Chinese with me daily, I tried to communicate with him in Chinese but I found it hard because most of the time he wouldn't understand what I am saying, or I would almost anticipate what he will understand and what he will not understand! for example, if i say I AM EATING in chinese he will surely understand but if i say I AM DESIGNING A CATALOGUE then he will have no idea what i am talking about!

well I also agree that I should speak chinese to him more but I did try to do this, and sometimes he got really frustrated and just want to stop chinese conversations, or sometimes if i say that I want to give him an hour chinese lesson then he might say NO it is saturday night let's just enjoy relaxing!

I think my husband wants to learn to speak good chinese without making too much effort or just to learn it naturally. but he would wake up sometime and point out that one of the reasons his chinese isn't good enough is because i dont speak chinese to him. but I don't know because I think if he wants to speak chinese with me then he should speak chinese to me because I will always repond in Chinese but then he only speak chinese to me occasionly.

Well, I don't know! What do you guys think?

[adrianlondon]

I'm English and my boyfriend's Taiwanese. We sometimes chat in Mandarin, but only in basic sentences/conversations. However, this is more to reinforce what I've already learnt.

I hired a tutor for a while and then went to Beijing for 5 months to study.

I don't believe it's possible to learn a language just by forcing someone to chat in a foreign langauge with you. It's not so bad now, as I can understand simple sentence structure and my vocabulary isn't too bad, but at the beginning he had no idea which words I knew (not many) so I'd just be at a loss as to what he said.

If your husband wants to learn the language he needs to do it formally (either night class, a tutor, or just by sitting down with some decent books and spending time alone). He can use you to help consolidate what he's learning, or to ask you specific questions, but as a general way to learn the langauge? It won't work. How many times do you want to tell him your name, age and occupation? ;)

There are often many ways of saying the same thing. If he learns one of them, and you happen to use another, you'll end up in an argument where he demands to know what the differences are, and why you picked one not the other. Your answer will always be "dunno, that's just the way I say it". He'll get nowhere and you'll be very bored/frustrated.

[in_lab]

I would point out that you do not speak Chinese with him because his Chinese is not good enough yet, but if he will do some studying or at least have lessons with you, then maybe he will get good enough. To put it more nicely, you could say he his Chinese level has plateaued on the no-effort learning method. Then schedule regular lessons, maybe an hour a week. If he flakes out on the lessons, which he probably will, then it's not your fault. Maybe you could type up some lesson topics or vocab to make it look like you're trying really hard.

[gato]

I think my husband wants to learn to speak good chinese without making too much effort or just to learn it naturally.

Yes, many people have that attitudes, but Chinese unfortunately is not as easy to learn as is walking, for example. Your husband will just have to suck it up and learn it like everyone else by doing one or more of the following: (a) working a through a textbook designed for foreign learners (such as Integrated Chinese or New Practical Chinese Reader); (B) take classes; and © hire a professional language tutor.

Your speaking Chinese with him should only be a way to reinforce what he has learned elsewhere, not a way of teaching him something new (at least not for the most part). Trying to be an amateur teacher to your husband is not very good for your marriage. I could only see it working if you were a professional teacher and he were a very self-motivated student. Neither of those are true in your case.

[Lu]

Of course it's not your fault. Who wants to learn the language here, you or he?! And it's not a language class you two have going, it's a marriage! You are not his tutor, you're his wife. And even if you would be his tutor, in the end he is the one that has to do the studying, not you.

If he is serious about wanting to learn Chinese, he should just go and do it. Most people on this forum have learned Chinese without the help of a spouse, and so can your husband. If he thinks you are no help in his efforts, he should find himself a tutor or a class, instead of blaming you for not being a tutor.

You can help him by saying the simple things (pass me the salt, dinner's ready, do you like this movie or that one) in Chinese. No doubt it'll make him happy whenever he understands something, and that will encourage him in his studies. But if he wants to move on to more difficult stuff, he has to learn that first. It's that simple. Learning by osmosis only works for babies.

[adrianlondon]

Learning by osmosis only works for babies.

Interesting point. I wonder what would happen if you took a grown man (me, for example) and placed them with a Chinese family in China who then spoke nothing but Chinese for 3 years, totally ignoring the man if he used another language (English, aka goo goo ga ga).

[johnd]

I wonder what would happen if you took a grown man (me, for example) and placed them with a Chinese family in China who then spoke nothing but Chinese for 3 years, totally ignoring the man if he used another language (English, aka goo goo ga ga).

Maybe, if you restrict the food and beer supply

I agree with the others. He needs to feel motivated to learn, and attend some classes. Then you can help to reinforce what he's learning. You'll have to use you feminine skills to make him think he wants to do it, without nagging of course!

[Shadowdh]

Learning by osmosis only works for babies.

And even then I am not so sure about this statement... I think they learn quicker as they have no preconceptions or built in "walls" that hinder learning but have you ever tried teaching a child anything... I really dont think osmosis is a term I would use... at least not for my two or any of their friends...

To the OP... I dont think its your fault at all... others here have pretty much pin pointed why I think... I think learning Chinese is 50% work, 50%frustration that you should be progressing faster/better and 50% work... yeah I know that makes 150% but thats what I think it makes...

[Lu]

Interesting point. I wonder what would happen if you took a grown man (me, for example) and placed them with a Chinese family in China who then spoke nothing but Chinese for 3 years, totally ignoring the man if he used another language (English, aka goo goo ga ga).

If you were motivated, I think what would happen is that as soon as you figured out a few basics, you'd start pointing at things and asking what they were called, making lists of words, ask people to repeat things for you. In short, you'd end up studying. Progress would be fast, as you'd practise all the time.

If you were not motivated on the other hand, you'd spend three years pointing at what you want, and perhaps crying if you don't get it :-)

I was afraid people would attack me from all sides for that sentence about osmosis only working for babies, glad to find you all are not.

[imron]

Learning by osmosis only works for babies.

Not true.

But I agree, it's unreasonable of the OP's husband to expect to become fluent just by having his wife speak to him.

[owshawng]

You husband needs to take classes or study on his own.

Have you tried speaking to him in Chinese and then repeating it in English. It take repitition to learn so hearing a word or phrase once a month is not going to help him learn.

It's not your fault. Your husband needs to learn how to learn in order to learn chinese or any other language.

[gato]

I wonder what would happen if you took a grown man (me, for example) and placed them with a Chinese family in China who then spoke nothing but Chinese for 3 years, totally ignoring the man if he used another language (English, aka goo goo ga ga).

There's a good chance that you will be able to learn the language that way if you are sufficiently motivated and the family is patient enough to continue to communicate with you. I think that's the way some of the early European explorers/missionaries learned the native languages.

[roddy]

More importantly, which forum member are you married to

You could try talking to him in real, 100% Chinese rather than dumbing it down for him. That should give him a bit of a shock. He's really going to have to get books, classes and do some study though.

As for osmosis - it might work, but past a certain age we're no longer language learning machines, and theoretically we are smarter than babies . . .

[strawberry_only]

Hi Guys!

Thanks for all of your replies!

I really want my husband to achive his dreams of speaking fluent Chinese as he is always supportive to me, he had always encourage me to do whatever I like to do and telling me that I am very good and very talented and such, he even support me to quit my last job that I didn't enjoying doing. In fact he doesn't like his job too but he still stick with it just because then he can earn enough money to give me a nice life. so sometimes I feel really guilty if I can not help him with his dreams.

Here are more details about the situation:

My husband started to learn Chinese about 4 years ago, he did live in China for 2 years and did attend Chinese lessons in China, he also tried to read a lot of chinese books and listen to Chinese tapes. now we live in London and he still go to Chinese lessons once a week, eveyday he reads chinese books on his way to work and practice chinese writing at home! so it seems like he does study hard! (but I am not sure if he is actually learning it by heart or just stare at books haha (sh) )

But I tell him his Chinese level is only basic... not even intermediate.. I know whenever i say this to my husband he gets really angry because he doesnt agree and he thinks by saying this to him I am just being not supportive and this will make him not happy with his Chinese learning. the reason I think his Chinese is basic is because that I think an advanced person should be able to know some basic words like understand these words in Chinese: FAX MACHINE, CURTAIN, MONITOR, CALCULATOR, TOWEL, KITCHEN SINK, SLIPPERS, LEMON, JEANS, PILLOW, HEADPHONES, MIRROR, SUPERMARKET AND ETC... But my husband doesnt know these words! He knows: WATER, DESK, TELEPHONE, BOOK, SHOE, CHOPSTICKS, RICE, RUN, WALK AND SUCH.

The reason I have an argument with my husband about his Chinese Level is because that I think he should go to a basic or intermediate class rather than going to an advanced lesson, because I just don't believe he would understand advanced lesson. and also he should be modest and start over and being serious about learning some basic Chinese words, because without knowing these its hard for me to communicate with him in Chinese.

I think the only reason my husband thinks he is already advanced is because he started to learn chinese 4 years ago and he spent so much time and effort on it. so he goes to advanced lesson when he still make mistakes like: 我见面你 which is I will meet with you; or 这个看一样那个 which is: this looks like the same as another one. (but I do correct him whenever I hear those!) I think because I am Chinese and when I was little my mom would never tell me that I was good enough and she had always told me that I needed to learn more and study harder, ( I guess this is a very Chinese thing and my husband doesnt like it whenever I tell him that his Chinese is not good enough and he needs to work harder!) my husband thinks I should tell him that his Chinese is very good! but I just can not do this like English people would say to an overweight and unhealthy person like: oh you are not fat at all! you are just fine! I mean in China if we see a overweight person we would point out: oh I think you are not healthy being overweight, you need to lose some weight!

I mean I just wanna be honest with my husband and I think my husband should study Chinese from basic level and this is the right way for him to learn Chinese better, but my husband hates it whenever I tell him this. ( however he told me that basic lessons only learns NI HAO; ZAI JIAN and sit with some really basic level people which will make him learning nothing better)

So I really don't know what to do.. Can anyone give me some advices how can I help my husband to improve his Chinese??? I mean I am not a westerner and I really don't know how to motivate a person to learn better in a western way. ( one of my english friend said the English people like to learn through playing but Chinese people learn things from hard working ). I guess maybe there is a good method? ( but for Chinese we just think the only way to success is through very hard-working)...

[strawberry_only]

Quote:

More importantly, which forum member are you married to

You could try talking to him in real, 100% Chinese rather than dumbing it down for him. That should give him a bit of a shock.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Haha, I am not sure if my husband is a member of this forum.

And, I did try to speak 100% Chinese to him. but he just sat in his chair and saying : yes, right, ok to all of my speeches, without questioning me what did i mean!! thats the most irritating bit. he wasn't shocked at all or worried, that just made me angry. haha!!

[jonaspony]

Although there are some good sound points out there, I have to disagree with most of you but Gato... go the Gato. And Adrianlondon... go AL!.

I want the same thing as your husband, but find such help difficult to attain. Why? Probably because I am older, and people don't treat me like a baby, simplifying, reinforcing, correcting, and most importantly, demonstrating. Whether or not he attends classes he needs you, more than anyone to reinforce what he learns. By all means go to class if you want, but language is ultimately learnt through family and friends.

A teacher of mine said that Chinese is a verb-based language. I keep finding that true. The verbs are the most flexible, slippery things to learn, but that is where the power of the language lies. So I suggest if you want to test your husband's willingness to work hard by letting him try the easy things; let him learn a whole bunch of nouns and measure words. They are easy to use, easy to reinforce, and easy to test. If he can't do that, or simply can't understand tones, then he should realise self-teaching and osmosis isn't going to work.

But as for the verbs, demonstrate them. Get him in the kitchen and tell/show him 把面包切片。 Let him know how to report his progress, so that he has a chance to use the phrase. Have him mixing, frying, boiling, washing up the dishes. Particularly washing the dishes, a very difficult verb to learn. Introduce the verb compliments this way, and give him some personal compliments as well. You'll be amazed at what you can make him do in the name of learning Chinese.

I think if you help him realise his dream (and he most probably wants to speak Chinese for your sake) then you needn't worry about your marriage. Successful or not, he will appreciate the effort you took, the gentle voice you used. Every man is a little boy who needs a mummy at times, and every woman needs a daddy at times too. And this is one of those occasions. I am not ashamed to nurture my friends and will always be grateful to those Chinese friends who took the time to teach me something. I wish you both well.

P.S. Although they are nouns, you should help him learn the name of the body parts, with lots of appropriate reinforcement.

[gato]

The reason I have an argument with my husband about his Chinese Level is because that I think he should go to a basic or intermediate class rather than going to an advanced lesson, because I just don't believe he would understand advanced lesson. and also he should be modest and start over and being serious about learning some basic Chinese words

You shouldn't take it so seriously. Just let him go to advanced class and see if he likes it. Why don't treat Chinese like if it were a hobby your husband engage in, like botany, for instance. Would you complain if your husband tried to advanced botany class instead of beginner one, even though he's clearly not a advanced botanist? And I doubt you would keep reminding him that he's just a beginner botanist. So just relaxed and help out when you can, but let him carry as he will. Don't get upset about it.

I think because I am Chinese and when I was little my mom would never tell me that I was good enough and she had always told me that I needed to learn more and study harder, ( I guess this is a very Chinese thing and my husband doesnt like it whenever I tell him that his Chinese is not good enough and he needs to work harder!) I just can not do this like English people would say to an overweight and unhealthy person like: oh you are not fat at all! you are just fine! I mean in China if we see a overweight person we would point out: oh I think you are not healthy being overweight, you need to lose some weight!

That's funny and very true. Chinese parents overdo it with the criticism, though. I'm Chinese, and my parents used to call me stupid all the time when I was younger. I used to get upset about it, but eventually I just answered that it's genetics and couldn't be helped.

[Han-tiger]

To speak Chinese with you daily is the best way for your husband to improve his oral Chinese. You are his language partner available almost 24 hours a day.

But not all the Chinese native speakers are necessarily able to teach westerners Chinese. To keep a daily verbal communication in Chinese with you is of course very helpful to your husband. But that is not enough! He need a systematic study in a language school, and your face-to-face interaction program is only part of it.

[wannabeafreak]

Phew! I actually thought you were my wife complaining about how much my Chinese sucks!

Let me put my 2cents in...

I used to be like your husband. Blame the wife for my poor communication skills because she would revert to English or spoke too much English to me. Surprisingly I was blinded by my skill level until I recorded myself after 3 months and had a listen to how TERRIBLE I spoke.

I also 100% DO NOT agree with your method. I can see NO GOOD in telling him his Chinese is bad and go back to beginner class. Chinese is damn difficult, and for the amount of effort he has put in, to simply say "you speak like sh*t and should take some beginner lessons" is absolutely unnecessary and frankly rude. You probably don't realise, but he is probably feeling cut inside.

Have you thought about constructive criticism? The one thing I hate is when people simply say "your Chinese is crap" and that's all, and for some reason they think its supposed to motivate me. I really think you should change your approach or you will hurt him inside - and its obvious from the effort he is putting in that he wants to improve, but you are not achieving this. Also MAYBE, your conversational topics are not difficult enough to enable improvement. In 4 years of serious study and still can't say those basic words seems a little far fetched.

Lastly, going to beginner classes is 100% useless and will simply waste your money. These words can be learnt from a dictionary or you simply telling him what the words are. I also know one person who lost his marriage over being too passionate for Chinese where the wife kept speaking English.

[deezy]

Learning by osmosis only works for babies.

Well, the thing is they are immersed in progressive instruction full-time. From their family, kids' TV shows and then formal schooling. Everyday, for years.

They say it takes a kid about 6 years of schooling in China to get decently fluent.

So, give an adult the same programming...and they will pick up the language just as fast, if not much faster... The difference is that we don't have the time for such extensive training.