adapting to studying chinese at a western university

[yonglin]

A couple of weeks ago, I came back to my unversity here in England. Since I'm doing a heavy course overload this year, and because I wish to keep up my Chinese, I'm taking a Chinese class (if a language class is not easier than other classes, then at least it's more relaxing). I'm a higher elementary / lower intermediate (5 on the HSK last June), and I'm doing the most difficult class here, which unfortunately is a bit too easy for me. My highest priority at the moment is to improve my writing, and I would like a teacher to check my work. So far, however, I'm very disappointed with these classes. The teacher (who is a very, very nice lady by the way) seems to have combined the worst parts of Chinese education with the worst parts of British education.

I don't know how much training this teacher has in teaching Chinese to foreigners. Once, however, she insinuated that she had been teaching English to Chinese people before. This is perhaps the reason why she explains grammar points in a very "English" way, which - in my opinion - makes understanding Chinese grammar (which isn't all that difficult after all) extremely difficult. Personally, I have never learnt to explain English in proper grammatical terminology, BUT after struggling with learning Chinese from Chinese textbooks for more than a year, I would say that I have a good enough understanding of Chinese grammar as well as it's particular terminology. For instance, I can say that that's a 可能补语 and know how to use it, but I wouldn't know how to explain it in English.

I'm also facing difficulties with the Chinese-English relationship:

We're often required to translate things (i.e., the sentences in our textbook) orally from Chinese into English. This is a very arduous task for me, and I am just not sure why. I've tried to reflect on this, and I believe that I'm just really bad at translation in general. For instance, I speak both English and Swedish (my mother tongue) fluently, but I have a really hard time making grammatically (and idiomatically) correct translations between the two. From Chinese to English (both non-native), it's even worse. I'm usually thinking (or trying to think) in the language which I intend to speak, so I try to set my mind to that particular language, and translations just become very difficult (maybe my brain is not large enough). When I'm reading in Chinese (and English), I may comprehend the text very well, but that does not imply that I can translate it. Because of this, I usually end up feeling quite stupid in class, when we're required to do the Chinese-English translations. In my opinion, translating between two languages is a quite different skill from being proficient in both of them.

Moreover, we're encouraged to speak English all the time: if the teachers asks 这句话是什么意思？ and someone tries to explain in Chinese, the teacher interrupts them very quickly and provides the English translation. Overall, the teacher seems to be speaking a lot more English than Chinese in classes. (Maybe I'm overreacting to this, because I kind of never had a Chinese teacher who spoke English in classes ever before.)

Nonetheless, what really made me write this post was yesterday evening, when we were given our weekly homework. Apart from doing some exercises and learning some words, we are also required to memorize a a fairly long passage from our textbook. Now, I can understand memorizing particular passages because they are of great literary value, or because you need them for a particular purpose (say, holding a speech or acting in a play), but I would argue that memorizing a passage from your textbook just for learning Chinese is quite ... pointless? At least, I have got this far in my Chinese learning without ever having to memorize passages from my textbooks. Once I memorized a piece of my own writing for a presentation, which was fine, since it really served its purpose during the presentation. However, once the presentation was finished, it was soon gone out of my head anyway. I don't see how this could be an efficient way of learning Chinese!

Maybe I'm just overreacting about the whole thing because I had such an amazing and terribly efficient Chinese teacher in Canada last year. However, some questions for you:

1. I believe that the teacher really should be speaking more Chinese in class (almost all people in my class are either Cantonese speakers with some Mandarin background, or have spent some time studying Chinese in China: I really don't think they would have problems understanding if the lessons was conducted in Chiense). However, since the teacher is such a nice lady, I would feel very bad about spontaneously criticizing her teaching. And if I did, I would like to do it in a very nice and respectful way. Does anyone have any experience in putting forward this kind of criticism to your teachers? How did you go about it? How did they react? Did they hate you afterwards?

2. How do you deal with adapting from a Chinese course with no translation (e.g., as it's taught in China) to one with extensive translation, in a time efficient manner?

3. Do you have any great learning experiences involving rote memorization which could provide me with some inspiration to do my homework?

Thank you.

[Lu]

Back in Holland, me & the class I was studying with had similar issues with Chinese teachers a few times. What we did was, after realizing that we all had a hard time with something or the other the teacher did, was sending a couple of people to the head of the department and tell him about our problems. The department head then came to sit into one of the classes of that teacher, saw that our complaints were justified, and talked about it with the teacher later on (not in our presence of course). Things improved a bit from that point.

In your case, I would maybe first try to sound out if others share your trouble. If your classmates are all happy with this teacher's method, there's not much you can do. But if they also have issues, you can either send someone to the higher-ups (don't know how accessible they are in your uni, my department was a very small one, and we knew the head personally) or send someone to politely talk to the teacher.

You can say something like you're not used to memorizing stuff, and it's really hard on you; in China you spoke a lot of Chinese in class, and that was very good for your Chinese; something along that line. Don't tell her she is doing it wrong (face), and don't tell her what to do: I've found that if you take a line of 'I have such a problem! Oh, oh, it's terrible! I don't know what to do! What should we do?' and then let the other person come up with the answer works better than suggesting the answer yourself.

But perhaps other people have other ideas.

PS As to memorizing passages, I wouldn't do it either, but to be honest it can be useful. Even if you forget the exact words, they give you a feeling for what is right and what is wrong (grammatically), more than if you would just read the text through or listen to it.

[Qcash3]

Personally, I have never learnt to explain English in proper grammatical terminology, BUT after struggling with learning Chinese from Chinese textbooks for more than a year, I would say that I have a good enough understanding of Chinese grammar as well as it's particular terminology. For instance, I can say that that's a 可能补语 and know how to use it, but I wouldn't know how to explain it in English.

I think that might be your problem with translation. As you said, being proficient in two languages is a far cry from being able to translate between the two. Professional translators must have an excellent grasp of the grammatical aspects of the languages they are trying to translate between. Interestingly enough, many native English speakers don't have the knowledge of grammar required to be effective translators. I taught English for a short while in Beijing, and when I saw the grammar lessons I was to be teaching I laughed. If my students were able to effectively master the grammatical points in their textbooks, they would have a more thorough knowledge of English grammar than many native English speakers.

As to memorizing passages, I wouldn't do it either, but to be honest it can be useful. Even if you forget the exact words, they give you a feeling for what is right and what is wrong (grammatically), more than if you would just read the text through or listen to it.

This is exactly right, during my 口语 classes we had an excellent teacher who employed this method of study quite frequently. We were asked to memorize certain passages or dialogues, then give a recitation in front of the class. I found this memorization to be quite helpful, even if it it was tedious. To me, Chinese has a certain feel to it when spoken correctly. For instance, if you were to say "我饿," it would feel awkward. However, "我的肚子饿了" feels more correct. When doing recitations you get a feel for the way things are supposed to flow, another way to do this would be to frequently converse with native Mandarin speakers.

In your case, I would maybe first try to sound out if others share your trouble. If your classmates are all happy with this teacher's method, there's not much you can do. But if they also have issues, you can either send someone to the higher-ups (don't know how accessible they are in your uni, my department was a very small one, and we knew the head personally) or send someone to politely talk to the teacher.

You can say something like you're not used to memorizing stuff, and it's really hard on you; in China you spoke a lot of Chinese in class, and that was very good for your Chinese; something along that line. Don't tell her she is doing it wrong (face), and don't tell her what to do: I've found that if you take a line of 'I have such a problem! Oh, oh, it's terrible! I don't know what to do! What should we do?' and then let the other person come up with the answer works better than suggesting the answer yourself.

I fully agree. I understand that it is very difficult to go from an immersion environment to a classroom environment. I came home from Beijing in September, but fortunately my university has a program where all of my classes are taught in Chinese. As close to an immersion environment as I could find in the U.S.: Unfortunately however, I don't start school until January, so I am looking for other ways to learn and keep my skills sharp. I think that through a combination of other methods you will be able to supplement your Chinese classes if, even after voicing your complaints with your teacher, you continue to find them unsatisfactory. One thing that I have done since being home, is become active in my areas Chinese language club. It is a good way to meet other Mandarin speakers, and practice your 口语和听力. Another good educational source has been Chinese television, movies, and music. They are useful for improving your 听力, and picking up new vocabulary. www.youku.com is basically a Chinese version of you tube, without the copyright laws, but it has Chinese music, television series, and movies. Also has Korean, Japanese, American, English, French, etc.: Most of the programs are character subtitled, so you can even work on your character recognition. As far as writing characters, that is something you can do on your own. When you make notes to yourself, write them in characters, even in classes besides Chinese. Best of luck to you in your transition.

[md1101]

hi yonglin,

im in a very very similiar situation to you. i left china with maybe a high intermediate level? anyway my first year back in australia i didnt do any chinese. but this semester (the second year back here) i decided i should. i am also in the top class the uni offers and its got, like your class, lots of students of cantonese background, some mandarin background or people like me who studied in china.

I complain about my class sometimes because I'm a bit sick of the pattern:

1) New article for week

2) Go over new words

3) New grammar patterns

4) Fill in the blanks

5) Very short discussion on text.

I just wish part 5 was much longer. plus the teachers very rarely correct our pronounciation problems. But what i can say is my teachers speak ONLY in chinese and even if we use english they'll reply in chinese which really encourages us to speak chinese to the point that no one ever really uses english.

so if i were you id ask her to stop with the english. i also don't like the idea of memorising chinese passages. thats how the chinese learn english in high school and as im sure most people feel who have been to china students who just left high school after studying 8 years of english generally still suck at english.