xray83 Posted November 9, 2007 at 01:15 AM Report Share Posted November 9, 2007 at 01:15 AM I read on some other forums that there is widespread racism for people who are not 'white' for English teaching positions in China. I am Chinese-Canadian. Not born in Canada but lived here practically my entire life and hold Canadian citizenship and passport. I can speak, read and write Mandarin and other than having no prior teaching experience I have a BA in Business, meet age standards (I am 24), and I am going to get my TEFL soon. Can anybody comment on the level of racism for non-white but native English people looking for ESL jobs? Are there any teachers on the board who are Chinese but native English? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gato Posted November 9, 2007 at 02:51 AM Report Share Posted November 9, 2007 at 02:51 AM Some threads for your reference. https://www.thatsbj.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11255&view=next CBC - Canadian Born Chinese teaching in BJ http://blog.taiwan-guide.org/2006/06/this-is-disgusting/ This is disgusting http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/6875-teaching-in-china-and-racism Teaching in China and Racism http://toshuo.com/2006/non-racist-recruiting/ Non-racist Recruiting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rincewind Posted November 9, 2007 at 11:53 AM Report Share Posted November 9, 2007 at 11:53 AM There is racism with regards employing English teachers, however it might not necessarily be detrimental to you. English teaching is general split into two bits. The majority is done by a native Chinese teacher who teaches reading, writing and does listening tests, usually with tapes. A few additional classes are done by a Foreign English teacher. These classes cover listening and speaking. The schools recommend the Foreign classes because it is the best way to learn English quickly. However, many parents dislike the foreign classes as they don't follow the school syllabus so closely and so are less useful for exams. In addition, because the attendance to foreign taught classes is lower, the schools charge more money, cutting the attendance still further. The parents who pay the premium for the Foreign teachers class will expect to see a foreigner teaching it. The easiest way for the school to show that the teacher is foreign is if the teacher looks foreign. And so we have the racism coming in. However, if you can speak Chinese, and look Chinese, then you can still get work as a English teacher. You will be teaching the Chinese teacher's class rather than the foreign teachers class. This may mean you start off on a lower pay scale, but since you have perfect English, you will rise up the career ladder faster than other Chinese teachers who will only have a basic English level. You may actually end up earning more than a white foreigner who has little career prospects. In the end your career will depend on your English ability and your ability to teach rather than your race. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xray83 Posted November 9, 2007 at 12:53 PM Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2007 at 12:53 PM Rincewind thank you so much for your answers! Do you happen to have an email? I would like to correspond further with you in regards to the subject since it seems you are very knowledgeable. My email is azntonymontana@hotmail.com. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shibole Posted November 9, 2007 at 02:01 PM Report Share Posted November 9, 2007 at 02:01 PM I believe there is also racism with regard to english-chinese translation as well. Typically you hire someone to translate stuff into their native language, so it wouldn't be surprising that you'd want to hire a chinese person to translate stuff into Chinese. However it seems that nobody wants to hire a non-Chinese person to translate stuff into English. I'm not sure if it's because of some racist attitude like "white people can't possibly learn Chinese" or just because it's cheaper to pay someone in China next to nothing to translate stuff into broken English then pay a normal English-only editor to fix it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roddy Posted November 9, 2007 at 02:14 PM Report Share Posted November 9, 2007 at 02:14 PM However, if you can speak Chinese, and look Chinese, then you can still get work as a English teacher. You will be teaching the Chinese teacher's class rather than the foreign teachers class. This may mean you start off on a lower pay scale, but since you have perfect English, you will rise up the career ladder faster than other Chinese teachers who will only have a basic English level. You may actually end up earning more than a white foreigner who has little career prospects. In the end your career will depend on your English ability and your ability to teach rather than your race. Do you know of anyone actually doing that? Even assuming anyone was committed to a career in teaching English here and was willing to accept the significant difference in pay, I suspect the inability to speak Chinese would quickly become problematic (though not for the OP). @the OP. This comes up quite regularly. It is likely to be harder to find work, but not impossible. Try and make sure you end up with a school that is concerned about quality of teaching and therefore doesn't care about skin colour, rather than one which is desperate for teachers and therefore doesn't care about skin colour. Off topic and re: the hiring of translators. As far as I'm concerned, the reason people usually give for declining to use my services is because I'm too darned expensive. They generally don't even know what colour I am. Chinese firms tend to be extremely price-sensitive, and so they tend to use the cheapest services, which tend to be local. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xray83 Posted November 9, 2007 at 02:55 PM Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2007 at 02:55 PM Hey shibole and roddy thanks for your replies! Racism is everywhere even here in Canada just less discrete I guess. I talked to a teacher placement advisor of a TEFL school I was looking at and he basically told me straight up when I asked him the question about landing an English teaching job as a non-Caucasian so at least I know the school isn't just looking for money and being 'yes' men. He basically said I am bound to face employment discrimination. That a lot of schools hire simply for marketing reasons (so that can put a white face on the wall for parents to see and pay more money was basically what he said). He said it will be more difficult to land a position because I look Chinese and not white and to compound things I am really only looking to go to one city or cities around there because my GF is there so that makes it even more difficult. But he did say they have successfully placed Canadian Chinese and American Chinese in China so there are opportunities. Do you guys work in schools? Do you know of any Chinese from Canada or America successfully landing teaching opportunities in China? As for the decrease in pay that is definitely problematic as well but that is why I am working here and saving up. I already have enough to what amounts to be 5-6 years worth of what local urban people get paid so I know I can survive financially despite possibly having to accept lower pay. In the end, the Z-visa is really what I want so I can go there for a year or maybe two and look for other opportunities that can start once the contract runs out in case the teaching profession doesn't pan out. Thanks guys. Please keep the answers and comments rolling. Are there any Asian teachers out there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rincewind Posted November 9, 2007 at 05:01 PM Report Share Posted November 9, 2007 at 05:01 PM Do you know of anyone actually doing that? Even assuming anyone was committed to a career in teaching English here and was willing to accept the significant difference in pay, I suspect the inability to speak Chinese would quickly become problematic (though not for the OP). Short answer is - Yes. Longer answer is I met a 18 year old girl at an English competition I judged last year who had lived for 10 years in Canada and spoke English with a Canadian accent. Though she's not a qualified teacher yet, that is her goal after Uni. Note that the O/P did say he could speak, read and write mandarin. As for translation. I think the Chinese to English is done by just looking up the words in a dictionary or by the company director's 9 year old kid. The only translations I have seen done by my school are form English into Chinese which requires a higher level of skill because the employer will know if it's wrong where as they won't know if the English is inadequate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roddy Posted November 9, 2007 at 10:18 PM Report Share Posted November 9, 2007 at 10:18 PM If you've got enough money that you don't need to worry about working, are functional in Chinese and have a BA - are you sure you actually want to teach? Unless you've decided that teaching is something you really want to do, why not come over for a few months, look for work either with a company or as a teacher, maybe consider enrolling in a school for the sake of a longer term visa. Which city are we talking about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xray83 Posted November 9, 2007 at 11:36 PM Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2007 at 11:36 PM Hey Roddy I just sent you an email. Any advice you can give would be great! You can reply me back at my email. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roddy Posted November 9, 2007 at 11:49 PM Report Share Posted November 9, 2007 at 11:49 PM Any advice you can give would be great! Post questions and information on the forum so that more people can answer and benefit. Trust me, it's great advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xray83 Posted November 10, 2007 at 12:24 AM Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2007 at 12:24 AM You are right Roddy! That is what the forums are for to learn from other peoples' experiences. Anyways some questions I have now are: First question. Has anybody used emoo to try to change their L visa to 6 months or 1 year F visa? How legitimate is their company? Second question. I know you can get 60 to 90 day L-visas here in Canada. My last L-visa was 60 days. Say I want to stay longer what kind of extension can I get. I read you can renew your L-visa once for another 90 days? So that makes 6 months? Lets say my L-visa expires and I go to HK and apply for another L-visa how does that work and how long does it take and how many times can I keep doing that? Basically I am seeing what is the longest I can stay in China by coming on a normal L-visa. Buying time so to speak so I can spend time with my GF and job search. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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