Ah-Bin Posted November 19, 2007 at 02:58 AM Report Share Posted November 19, 2007 at 02:58 AM I notice that some of the words that are taught in nationally approved textbooks in the PRC are not those that are actually used in English-speaking countries (or in some countries where Chinese is taught. The first one I noticed was "Chinese" to refer to what is often called "Mandarin" I know in Hong Kong they often write it in English as "Putonghua" straight into English, but in Singapore, Malaysia, Australia, New Zealand and Britain use the term "Mandarin" for the official language in China. An ordinary native speaker of English uses "Chinese" to refer to any sort of Chinese (but usually Mandarin or Cantonese). But a Chinese student asks "Do you speak Chinese?" referring specifically to Mandarin. Then there is "Spring Festival" I have tried this term on a few of my friends and no-one knew what it meant. Every other English-speaking country calls it "Chinese New Year" (or Korean New Year, or Tet, if they are referring to Korea or Vietnam. I kind of understand the logic of the first example, but the second one is strange. Why teach words that no-one actually uses? Has anyone else noticed any more of these, or had to un-teach some vocabulary items that English speakers never use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh2007 Posted November 19, 2007 at 04:22 AM Report Share Posted November 19, 2007 at 04:22 AM Another one is minzu as "nationality". Nationality in English implies citizenship of some other country. A better translation in English would be "ethnic group". You can here people in Sichuan say "I am of the Yi nationality", and you wonder what country that is! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ah-Bin Posted November 19, 2007 at 04:56 AM Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2007 at 04:56 AM Yes, that is another good one. Where is your Yi passport then? I didn't include some words that are obviously political like "feudal" to describe pre-Republican China. There are a few that are used in widely in English now but are different in Chinese, like 主席 zhuxi translated as "President" along with 总统 zongtong for the same thing. I wasn't quite sure why it is "Chairman Mao" but "President Hu" when both are translations of 主席 zhuxi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gougou Posted November 19, 2007 at 05:06 AM Report Share Posted November 19, 2007 at 05:06 AM Actually, he's both: He is now general secretary of the CPC Central Committee, president of the People's Republic of China, chairman of the Central Military Commission. http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/zhuanti/Zhuanti_403.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ah-Bin Posted November 19, 2007 at 05:09 AM Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2007 at 05:09 AM Yes, but what terms are they translating here? and what terms were they translating for Chairman Mao? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mugi Posted November 19, 2007 at 05:20 AM Report Share Posted November 19, 2007 at 05:20 AM My favorite Chinglish phrase: Jiang Zemin's "Three Represents" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gougou Posted November 19, 2007 at 05:22 AM Report Share Posted November 19, 2007 at 05:22 AM Yes, but what terms are they translating here? and what terms were they translating for Chairman Mao?In Chinese, he's 主席 of everything. I assume that those translations are used to facilitate understanding for foreigners (which seems to be the opposite of the spring festival one Josh mentions... ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh2007 Posted November 19, 2007 at 05:52 AM Report Share Posted November 19, 2007 at 05:52 AM President-= Head of State= guojia zhuxi. Even when Mao was chairman of the party, other people were presidents of the country. Mao's chairman title: was chairman of the Party. That title was abolished after him. No one is chairman of the party any more, although Hu is general secretary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonaspony Posted November 19, 2007 at 06:08 AM Report Share Posted November 19, 2007 at 06:08 AM Seems that you expect things to be the same in China, therefore directly translatable. Spring festival is what it is - why call it anything else? What would the Chinese call the sun calendar new year - Western New Year? As Gougou pointed out, the status of president, prime minister, and so on, varies between states, so they are not singular in their meanings - even in English. There's that word 'state' which means a few things, especially in the United States and Australia where a state is a part of a federation. But this is not the same as a province, or is it? "Nationality" in the Chinese sense is closer to the original meaning, certainly the Marxist-Leninist definition, but its meaning outside socialist countries changed to incorporate an idea of self-rule. (A concept with disasterous ramifications around the world from Kosovo to Tibet). And it does sound strange to the Western-trained ear. Yeah, and "3 represents" also sounds strange, but I think it is quite correct, just an unusual form that the Chinese like to use. Similar to '5 dos and 3 don'ts'. Looks funny on paper. I don't have any problem with these, although they all made me jump at first. I'll be interested to hear any more. I know they are out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh2007 Posted November 19, 2007 at 10:29 AM Report Share Posted November 19, 2007 at 10:29 AM A good one is fang2zi. "House". But normally house means a separate house, not a flat or apartment, in English. So I think this word should really translate as "apartment" rather than "house". But I find myself calling my apartment my "house" when talking to Chinese people, so as not to confuse them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heifeng Posted November 19, 2007 at 10:37 AM Report Share Posted November 19, 2007 at 10:37 AM Just confuse with the word apartment or flat and consider it tough love otherwise your encouraging inaccurate English. They can either nod their head and pretend to understand or actually ask what you mean. Besides, it seems like in China what we may consider an actual 'house' is more like a 'bieshu' anyway since no one really lives in a separate house in the middle of the city... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonaspony Posted November 19, 2007 at 01:25 PM Report Share Posted November 19, 2007 at 01:25 PM OK, I think I have one... Woman / girl. I have offended 24 year old Chinese girls by calling them women. Similarly my classmates refused to believe that 追女孩 means to chase women, not pre-adolescent girls. Way off the mark? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heifeng Posted November 20, 2007 at 10:27 AM Report Share Posted November 20, 2007 at 10:27 AM change it to 泡妞 and you'll be set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muyongshi Posted November 20, 2007 at 10:32 AM Report Share Posted November 20, 2007 at 10:32 AM Depending on who you're talking to that could be playing with fire heifeng... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heifeng Posted November 20, 2007 at 10:44 AM Report Share Posted November 20, 2007 at 10:44 AM well, i was gonna let him figure that out by himself, but now you ruined it...heheh j/k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muyongshi Posted November 20, 2007 at 10:48 AM Report Share Posted November 20, 2007 at 10:48 AM Nice.... (sorry- you should warn me next time) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ah-Bin Posted November 21, 2007 at 01:45 AM Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 at 01:45 AM Seems that you expect things to be the same in China, therefore directly translatable. Spring festival is what it is - why call it anything else? What would the Chinese call the sun calendar new year - Western New Year? Outside China a lot of them do call it just that. As for the case of "Spring Festival" that is the Chinese expectation that things are directly translatable into English, rather than the other way around. If I expected everything to be the same in China, I would go around saying 中国新年 and 胡总统 which I don't do, because people might not understand. All of Jonaspony's other points I can accept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
self-taught-mba Posted November 21, 2007 at 03:47 AM Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 at 03:47 AM well there's always the "You're so clever" thing instead of "you're smart". I've heard Brits say clever more, but they (the Chinese) really don't know the word "smart" only "clever" b/c that's what the dictionary says. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zozzen Posted November 21, 2007 at 08:58 PM Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 at 08:58 PM Then there is "Spring Festival" I have tried this term on a few of my friends and no-one knew what it meant. Every other English-speaking country calls it "Chinese New Year" (or Korean New Year, or Tet, if they are referring to Korea or Vietnam. When you talk about new year, it can both mean 1 Jan in western calender and Chinese lunar calender, but spring festival exactly refers to the first day of the lunar calender. The fact that this word is invented is because spring festival isn't exactly equal to Chinese new year. You know the word Tet, so i think the Spring Festival is the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zozzen Posted November 21, 2007 at 09:05 PM Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 at 09:05 PM A good one is fang2zi. "House". But normally house means a separate house, not a flat or apartment, in English. So I think this word should really translate as "apartment" rather than "house". But I find myself calling my apartment my "house" when talking to Chinese people, so as not to confuse them. Good observation. There's no straight difference between apartment and house in traditional Chinese. If you want to make it clear, use the word 分层单位. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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