pazu Posted May 16, 2004 at 06:13 AM Report Share Posted May 16, 2004 at 06:13 AM Is it the same origin as the "生" in Cantonese (as in "陳生", Mr Chan) and "さん" in Japanese, as "鈴木さん" ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ala Posted May 16, 2004 at 07:17 AM Report Share Posted May 16, 2004 at 07:17 AM I'm not sure... One theory says it's actually from the English "sir" Here are some terms off my head 长三（上等妓女） 赖三（女流氓） 瘪三 猪头三 红头阿三（印度人） 小鬼三 老鬼三 But the 三 today is no longer productive. I can't just make up a new word by adding 三 nor can I use it for title purposes. So it's quite like 生 for Mandarin. It's possible that the terms above have influence from 生 since 三 was originally pronounced as /sae~/ (just 120 years ago) which is quite close to 生 today /sA~/. (~ = nasalization like in French "banque", the nasal vowel got lost for 三 /sae~/ and became /sae/ and 70 years later is now /sE/ and sounds like English "say"). This transformation for 三 is universal in Shanghainese as 舰 /khae~/ --> /khae/ --> /khE/. Losing nasal vowels appears to be very easy, as most of French nasal vowels have been lost too. In Shanghainese today the mister title is like Mandarin, 先生 (shisan, IPA: /SisA~/). 先 /Sie~/ or /c,ie~/ --> /Sie/ --> /Si/ (exactly like し). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pazu Posted May 16, 2004 at 09:12 PM Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2004 at 09:12 PM ala: but why is 长三 = 上等妓女? How about 短三? = 下等妓女? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ala Posted May 16, 2004 at 10:42 PM Report Share Posted May 16, 2004 at 10:42 PM Hmm. Second-class prostitutes were called 幺二. I've also heard that the origin of the term 长三 referred to the price they were able to get for ANYTHING (making tea costed 三元, talking costed 三元, etc). So that's possible too... 长三 can also be a homophone with 长衫 in Shanghainese. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pazu Posted May 16, 2004 at 10:44 PM Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2004 at 10:44 PM Objection! I don't think wearing 長衫 is a prostitute! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handbus Posted May 19, 2004 at 01:01 PM Report Share Posted May 19, 2004 at 01:01 PM I am a Shanghainese, so let me tell you some story of the word "上三" Please notice that it should be "上三" but not "长三". "上" and "长" are same pronounced in Shanghai dialect, which make you mistake them. In the 1930's, the joyhouses were located on the Fuzhou Rd, which was commonly called the 4th street. And the first class joyhouses were called "上三堂子" while "幺二堂子" for the 2nd class and "下三堂子" or "咸肉庄" for the 3rd class. The lowest class of joyhouses are called "钉棚" As a suffix of a title, "三" is mostly used with a bad sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ala Posted May 19, 2004 at 04:33 PM Report Share Posted May 19, 2004 at 04:33 PM no, I think it's 长三. At least, the Chinese literature I've read always used 长三. But they are pronounced the same (and so is 长衫 haha). 上 would be more intuitive, but... Yup, 三 suffix is pretty much always negative, as you can tell from the examples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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