你下了课来找我了

[freefall]

你下了课来找我了

I used to think this sentence was always incorrect. But now I think it it's grammatical if used in the correct context. For example,

A： 你明天下了课找谁？

B： 应该是找陆老师...

A: 不，你下了课来找我了。

Is my logic correct?

Thanks again for all the help.

[skylee]

I don't think it is correct. In such context it should probably be "你下了課來找我" (an order) or "你下了課來找我吧" (a suggestion). I think a 了 at the end is inappropriate as the action has not taken place.

On the other hand, if the dialogue refers to something happened in the past, then the 了 at the end could be ok. For example -

A： 你昨天下了課找誰去了？

B： 好像……應該是去找陸老師了……

A： 不，你怎麽忘了？你昨天下了課來找我了。

[freefall]

Hmm... the reason I assumed it could be correct in some circumstances is that I found a phrase like this on the internet:

明天別下雨了

（http://mypaper.pchome.com.tw/news/ae90266/3/1302800233/20080131224113/）

In this case you have the 了 at the end and the action hasn't taken place.

[rezaf]

别。。。了 is another case

there are also sentences like

快。。。了

就要。。。了

快要。。。了

就。。。了

and even something like: 我先去吃饭了 and etc

The difficult part is when the action has taken place but there is no 了。If you somehow manage to understand that please 告诉我。

[rezaf]

In my experince native speakers(including the teachers I have seen so far)don't have a clear concept about different types of past tense in other languages and how to connect it to 了。 I still don't understand why there is no 了 in many past tense senteces but ever since I memorize the lessons I make fewer mistakes.(<-btw is this sentence correct in English?)

[freefall]

Then what about something like:

他们决定今天在这过，明天再走了。

found on the net.

rezaf: ever since I started memorizing the lessons

edit: here's another sentence from the net which uses the structure i mentioned:

今天本来跟冷说好了要跟那个臭娘们算账的结果这个臭娘们从中午一直不在学校只好明天找她了唉你说就为了那点钱至于吗?

is it correct?

http://shenjingbingle.spaces.live.com/?_c11_BlogPart_pagedir=Next&_c11_BlogPart_handle=cns!F26C151A75839954!119&_c11_BlogPart_BlogPart=blogview&_c=BlogPart

[rezaf]

明天再走了。

I think it shows the change of decision like: 昨天他说来，今天又不来了。 but my question is if it is possible to omit 再 and 又？

[freefall]

In at least some contexts yes; for example, 我们明天走了is perfectly fine.

[rezaf]

if 再。。。了 or 又。。。了 form a specific phrase that shows a change in time of something or a delay then there might be a 再 hidden in 只好明天找她了.

however it's just my imagination. we need a native speaker.

[semantic nuance]

明天別下雨了

It shows that today is raining or it has rained for a few days and hopefully tomorrow won't rain again.

Examples as below listed by you guys show that something has happened, said or existed but the outcome is not as expected.

昨天他說要來, 今天他又不來了.

今天本来跟冷说好了要跟那个臭娘们算账的. 结果,这个臭娘们从中午一直不在学校只好明天找她了.

快。。。了

就要。。。了

快要。。。了

就。。。了

Think the pattern this way (again, out of instinct, not out of grammatical rules): the action is on the way to the point of being done. 一個動作在完成之前的蘊釀, 等到動作一完成的時候就算已經做完了. It's like an action in progress, until it reaches the point of being done, there's a 了. I hope you understand what I'm driving at. Sorry, lame explainer.

Examples:

她快哭了.

她就要到了, 再等一會.

[skylee]

we need a native speaker.

If you really want native speakers (which I doubt, but anyways), take a look at this thread -> Are you a native Chinese speaker

Sometimes I would PM certain members (particularly those in Taiwan as they are less active here presumably having better things to do ) inviting them to comment on some threads and usually they would be very kind (thanks, semantic nuance). Perhaps you could try inviting other native speakers to comment here.

[semantic nuance]

No problem, skylee, if I could be of any help!

A lot of times I'd like to help but my English is not that great to make the points clear.Sometimes I do want to post in Chinese but drop the idea in a second. I don't know about grammar. Just try to help. wondering if people understand my explanations.

[rezaf]

don't know what's wrong with these books and teachers. It seems that no one cares to explain how exactly 了 works. :evil: Everyday it appears and disappears in strange places. There is no grammar in Chinese and there are very few fixed structures which makes it difficult to make new sentences. I have memorized over 20 essays from our books and when I write an essay or want to say something I just use those sentences but I don't know how long I can continue like this. It takes a lot of energy and I often get headaches. It is the most primitive way of learning a language but when there is no fixed grammar I have no options.Sometimes I wonder after memorizing these essays how many empty cells will be left in my brain.

[Quest]

了 is also a modal particle, like 吧 啊 嘛 呗 etc...

see: http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/3034-all-simple-yet-confusing-grammar-rules

[rezaf]

了 is also a modal particle, like 吧 啊 嘛 呗 etc...

like this one?

A: 我和徐公比，谁漂亮？

B: 当然是你漂亮了。

[freefall]

Okay, so this is my theory regarding the usage of le in the future.

We will need to make a distinction between expository statements, which express the opinion or wish of the speaker, possibilities, explanations, etc. and narrative statements, which simply narrative the facts of a situation. For example:

你不要这样 is evaluative

他昨天来了 is narrative

narrative statements discussing the future cannot incorporate le, ever. Actually, narrative statements never discuss the future, because as soon as you're discussing the future, your statement becomes expository.

* 他明天来了（narrative) is bad

expository statements/commands that express a desire for a change in the given situation by the speaker can incorporate modal (end-of-sentence) le. this le is not actually referring to the future, but to the emerging situation right now, namely that the speaker wants something to change

别哭了

this works best for relatively short and continuous statements. as the statements become longer or incorporate conjunctions, native speakers will tend to say that le is inappropriate, for example

* 你下了课来找我了

however, if there is a strong emphasis on the change in the situation, i still think this statement might be appropriate. for example:

今天本来跟冷说好了要跟那个臭娘们算账的. 结果,这个臭娘们从中午一直不在学校只好明天下了课找她了.

Another example which I suspect is correct is:

我们只好明天照常上课, 然后去找他了。

Can a native speaker comment on whether the above uses of le are acceptable?

note also that expository statements referring to the future can also sometimes include aspectual le, for example

自信千万不要过了头

[rezaf]

I think that: I think that "le" in

"走了！" ,"我先去吃饭了！"and also in "明天下了课找她了." shows a change and that this is my final decision so get over it!

btw is there a hidden 再 in 明天下了课再找她了？

[HashiriKata]

btw is there a hidden 再 in 明天下了课(再)找她了？

I think 再 is optional here. The necessary one is 要, whether it's hidden or expressed.

[rezaf]

thanks again, my book says that 再 means again but I have noticed that in many cases it means delaying an action not repeating it, is it right?

[HashiriKata]

再 often means "again" but it also means many other things. You'll need it in context to determine what it really means then.