Please recommend me a beginner-level textbook

[Lao Che]

I've read a bit of the wiki and searched through threads, but I haven't found a consensus on which beginner textbook is the best -- probably because there isn't one. That's ok because I don't need a consensus. I would like to know of 2 - 3 textbooks that are generally considered to be better than the rest. Integrated Chinese, New Practical Chinese Reader, and Chinese Made Easy seem to be the ones I read about regularly. Are they all good introductions to the spoken and written word?

Would you recommend the first volumes of these texts to a beginner? What were your experiences with these textbooks like?

Let me tell you a bit about what my goals and expectations are:

* My primary goal is to become functionally fluent in Mandarin. Practical speech is my priority. However, I do want to become introduced to writing, and I do need a source that can explain grammar to me.

* I want a textbook that is clear and (if I want it to be) exhaustive in its grammatical explanations. Do textbooks like these exist, or will I have to rely on outside sources a lot while learning? (I will be learning from a variety of sources, but I'd like everything consolidated when possible).

* I'm halfway through the Pimsleur series (one unit a day) and have decided learning Chinese is something I want to do... but I need a structured learning aid to help me. I'm sure a more advanced learner is capable of developing a lesson plan for themselves, but at this stage I am yearning for structure.

From what I've read, Chinese Made Easier focuses on the practical aspect of the language first, but its audio recordings are sub-standard compared to the New Reader. To be honest, I don't know much about Integrated Chinese, and opinions on the New Practical Chinese Reader vary wildly.

I hope a magical textbook exists that will meet 95% of my needs. As a beginner, I don't think that's too much to ask, but it probably is. Thank you in advance. This forum has been a great resource so far.

[renzhe]

I recommend NPCR to most people, though other textbooks you've mentioned are also all highly rated. So opinions on this may vary.

The NPCR has a really good grammar section, IMHO, and good audio, which seems to be your priorities. I think that these books are all good (I haven't tried most of them, I'm going on opinions of people who know what they're talking about), and it comes to nuances and priorities.

The way I see it, the strongest points of the NPCR compared to other textbooks are:

- clear grammar explanations,

- big, clear characters,

- adherence to the HSK guidelines

- a good pace

- a wide range of material (exercises, CDs, DVDs, essays, supplementary vocab, etc.)

This thread has a snippet of a grammar explanation from NPCR 3, to give you an idea of how detailed it is, and you can find many of the NPCR videos from their DVDs on youtube (just search for NPCR DVD). This may help you evaluate it a bit.

I'm personally on volume 5 of NPCR (finished all the previous ones) and I'm very happy with it.

[Chinese Learner]

I tried the first two Chinese Made Easier textboooks and found them quite good to learn every day chinese. The recordings are a bit noisy, but if you have a little patience you can download free noise reduction software from somewhere and just 'clean them' up a bit, well the worst ones anyway.

http://www.chinesemadeeasier.com/

Also I've noticed people use 'short-term spoken chinese' conversation for oral chinese. There are five levels I think.

http://www.studychineseculture.com/book.asp?id=4317

[character]

I want a textbook that is clear and (if I want it to be) exhaustive in its grammatical explanations. Do textbooks like these exist, or will I have to rely on outside sources a lot while learning? (I will be learning from a variety of sources, but I'd like everything consolidated when possible).

The best source for grammar I've found is:

Modern Mandarin Chinese Grammar by Claudia Ross, ISBN-10: 0415700108 , ISBN-13: 978-0415700108

It also has a workbook available (I've not used it):

Modern Mandarin Chinese Grammar Workbook, ISBN-10: 0415700116 , ISBN-13: 978-0415700115

A gentle intro text with good grammar explanations is:

Mandarin Chinese the Easy Way, ISBN-10: 0764193694, ISBN-13: 978-0764193699

It's mainly pinyin based, but if you take the time to look up/write the characters for all the pinyin in the book, I bet you'll be more proficient in characters than a lot of beginners.

[dsrguru]

FSI is probably the best course out there if you want to go from 0 to pretty fluent in a year, but as with most courses, it gets a little boring. It's free, so I suggest you check it out. It combines a Pimsleur-like audio format with a textbook that has excellent (but not excessive in quantity) grammatical explanations, along with a workbook. If you prefer to learn in a more fun manner, you might be able to apply the AJATT method to Chinese. Just make sure you teach yourself proper pronunciation first (the FSI Pronunciation and Romanization tapes should help greatly). If the AJATT method seems too overwhelming and you need more guidance, just work through the FSI course. Good luck.

P.S. FSI doesn't teach you hanzi, but you're probably not ready to learn writing anyway since you would kind of have to choose either simplified or traditional, and I doubt you already intend on living in a specific Chinese-speaking country at this point in your language-learning quest. You can teach yourself to read both simplified and traditional characters in much less time (via an SRS program), you'll be able to type in either format, and you can still commit to learning to write either simplified or traditional hanzi in the future when you actually know your life plans. Outside of a Chinese speaking country, the ability to write hanzi doesn't have much use, so it makes sense to wait until you actually know where you'll need the ability. If you commit now and guess wrong, you will have wasted about a year or so of time you could have spent learning spoken Mandarin.

[Luobot]

I wrote a preliminary comparative review of NPCR and CME at this thread, in case you haven't seen it, and I'm writing a follow-up review to be posted after I've completed both texts. While I don't want to jump the gun before then, I can say with full confidence that either of these two texts are worthwhile to get you started. You may still want other books to supplement them because no single source can possibly cover everything in a language like Mandarin, but I would first start with either of these two books and take it from there.

As far as cleaning up the audio goes, I have tons of experience with doing that, but no matter what you take out, you can't add back sound quality that isn't there to begin with. On the other hand, the CME vol 1 audio quality, while poor, is still tolerable to my critical ear, and the pronunciation section in the text (not audio) is superb.

You also can't go wrong with NPCR vol 1, which is a wonderful and accessible text in every respect.

[-Bee-]

The best source for grammar I've found is:

Modern Mandarin Chinese Grammar by Claudia Ross, ISBN-10: 0415700108 , ISBN-13: 978-0415700108

It also has a workbook available (I've not used it):

Modern Mandarin Chinese Grammar Workbook, ISBN-10: 0415700116 , ISBN-13: 978-0415700115

I agree, this book really is one of the best you'll find out there.. Consists of two parts: part A: structures (overview of pronounciation and pinyin romanization, overview of the chinese writing system, nouns, numbers, classifiers, adjectival verbs, modal verbs etc., etc.); part B: situations and functions (basic strategies for communication, negating information, describing people, places, things, talking about present, future, expressing information etc., etc.)

Easy understandable explanations; every explanation has a few examples; book uses both simplified and traditional characters.

I have both book and workbook - works great for me

[HerrPetersen]

If your priority is on spoken language I would definitly try out "Assimil: Chinese with Ease". For me it has been so far the best resource. Grammar-points are presented here and there but the main focus is definitvely on spoken language. The book is in my eyes pure genius.

As for aquiring writing skills I would propose trying out a "Remembering the Hanzi"-style approach.

[Lao Che]

Thanks for the great replies so far. From the sounds of it, most of the texts I mentioned offer good introductions at the beginner level.

renzhe: advantages the NPCR has over other texts makes it sound perfect for me. What are its disadvantages?

Luobot: I read your thread awhile ago and it was quite informative; I am very interested in hearing your final opinion on those texts. Of course, by then, I hope to have moved beyond them .

character: you said Mandarin Chinese the Easy Way is a very gentle introduction to Chinese grammar. Is it worth it to complete that book prior to Modern Mandarin Chinese?

dsrguru: FSI looks like a solid course, but I'm afraid it would demand too much of my time. I want to finish Pimsleur while working on a beginner's textbook. Would jumping into FSI after that make any sense?

Chinese Learn: I will definitely look into the Short Term spoken Chinese series, thanks.

It looks like I'll be taking a few trips to the library. Right now I'm leaning towards NPCR. I'll use that and its workbook in conjunction with Pimsleur. Perhaps I'll purchase one or two other books that focus mostly on beginner-level grammar to supplement that aspect of my studying.

So far the hardest thing about learning Chinese has been deciding what to learn and where to learn it from!

[renzhe]

renzhe: advantages the NPCR has over other texts makes it sound perfect for me. What are its disadvantages?

I can't answer that because I don't have much experience with other texts you've mentioned.

I just know that it's a good recommendation because there's nothing really BAD about it. Perhaps other texts shine in some aspects where NPCR is weaker, but there's nothing bad in there.

One thing that might be of importance is that it's heavily geared towards simplified characters. Starting from volume 2, you also get all the texts and dialogues also in traditional form as an appendix, and the index and the dictionary at the end contains traditional forms, but learning traditional characters with NPCR will probably be quite a hassle. All the exercises and vocabulary are in simplified only.

EDIT: There is a traditional-character version of NPCR now, so some of the above doesn't apply.

Edited January 28, 2010 at 02:46 PM by renzhe

[character]

character: you said Mandarin Chinese the Easy Way is a very gentle introduction to Chinese grammar. Is it worth it to complete that book prior to Modern Mandarin Chinese?

Modern Mandarin Chinese Grammar is a good supplement to any textbook as it is mainly a reference volume on Chinese Grammar.

If you are in the US, you might be able to find Mandarin Chinese the Easy Way in a bookstore so you can see if you like it.

If you want to wait a bit, you could try the 3rd edition of Integrated Chinese

http://www.cheng-tsui.com/store/products/integrated_chinese

[atitarev]

I highly recommend "Graded Chinese Reader 1", for which I am going to write a review. It's a reader, not a textbook.

Graded Chinese Reader 1: Selected, Abridged Chinese Contemporary Short Stories+MP3

The book has both hanzi and pinyin, making it easier to learn both. The grammar and vocabulary are quite simple and there are some explanations in English. The MP3 files for each story are of a very good quality. They are recorded in a consistent slow speed (female voice), very clearly. I have read thoroughly the first story so far, which I found interesting - 人们的鱼. Normally, I have some initial difficulties following Chinese audio recordings. Not with this one. I think it's a great value.

[Don_Horhe]

The best source for grammar I've found is:

Modern Mandarin Chinese Grammar by Claudia Ross, ISBN-10: 0415700108 , ISBN-13: 978-0415700108

It also has a workbook available (I've not used it):

Modern Mandarin Chinese Grammar Workbook, ISBN-10: 0415700116 , ISBN-13: 978-0415700115

Would these two be available in Chinese bookstores?

[weilian]

The problem with NPCR occurs in the later books, and has to do almost exclusively with vocabulary. There are too many wenhua new words a not enough applicable ones.

Perhaps try studying several beginner books simultaneously. The benefit of this is evident once you've been at it for a while. Firstly, most textbooks introduce new words and grammar at similar periods, however, they use them differently in the texts. Secondly, for some very odd reason, Chinese textbooks at the beginner level are almost entirely dialogue-based. While this will help with your oral communication, it precludes you from seeing other words related to the dialogue, but not introduced. The method I outlined might help fill in some of those gaps as well.

On a side note: Does anyone know why Chinese textbooks adopt a different approach to building a vocabulary than textbooks in other languages? Spanish textbooks are, for example, organized around vocabulary units, and accompanied by relevant texts. The only guesses I could make is character difficulty, or that its not as "plug and say" as other languages.

[lemur]

On a side note: Does anyone know why Chinese textbooks adopt a different approach to building a vocabulary than textbooks in other languages? Spanish textbooks are, for example, organized around vocabulary units, and accompanied by relevant texts. The only guesses I could make is character difficulty, or that its not as "plug and say" as other languages.

One example I can come up with is "Integrated Chinese" by Cheng & Tsui. The chapters are organized by topic and you get vocabulary related to that topic. E.g. chapter 10 is about the weather so you learn the names of the seasons, how to say it is warm, hot, cold, humid, etc. Does that not correspond to a "vocabulary unit"?

[renzhe]

Perhaps try studying several beginner books simultaneously. The benefit of this is evident once you've been at it for a while.

I've actually done this, and there's no reason not to recommend it, as long as you have decent textbooks at your disposal.

But I still think that one really good textbook is much better than 3 bad ones. So it's good to pick a really solid main one, and if you can work through a couple of other ones on the side, that's a great bonus.

Secondly, for some very odd reason, Chinese textbooks at the beginner level are almost entirely dialogue-based

For some reason, I prefer it this way. I've worked through 4 different Chinese beginner textbooks and I've enjoyed the dialogue-based ones far more.

Another important aspect for me is some sort of continuity. Texts where there are recurring characters with personalities, and even some humour that develops, are much more interesting for me.

At the advanced levels, all textbooks seem to rely on essays anyway.

[lau]

I'd like to second what weilian said about the vocabulary in later NPCR books. It is badly chosen. I guess it's because the authors have tried introducing Chinese culture or whatever, but they don't really try giving the most useful vocab first. It won't prepare You for, say, newspaper reading, news and actual colloquial conversation.

Another suggestion given before, the Assimil Chinese book, is heavy on the colloquial side. I'd strongly recommend it as a supplement to a typical textbook. It'll teach you more on actual communication than most "colloquial chinese" books published in China.

Even though Integrated Chinese is not bad, it's probably quite a scary text for a beginner. It has short dialogues followed by loooong vocabulary lists. In this respect, NPCR is much more user-friendly, especially in the initial stages. Also, NPCR has a built-in repetition of the vocab, while IC approach is topic-based, thus making it easy to forget most of the looong vocab lists quite quickly. The old edition of IC is available online from a university web page, you can take a look to decide are you willing to go through such a concentrated text or not. site: http://eall.hawaii.edu/yao/ Also, chinesepod has supplementary stuff designed specially for IC users, and a textbook much praised on these forums for listening practice, "Making Connections" (Tseng&Tsui), is supposed to follow roughly the same topics as IC.

[renzhe]

I've been memorising the HSK vocabulary (halfway through the 3rd set) at the same time as reading NPCR. The result is that my vocabulary is ahead of what is introduced in the NPCR. I find that I already know most of the vocab whenever I start a new lesson (though this is less the case now, at advanced NPCR levels). So it is my observation that most of the vocabulary used is listed in the HSK vocabulary list, and therefore tested on the HSK, which I'd consider important. Of course, you will sometimes get words like 仙女 and 嫦娥, which will not do anything for your understanding of economics-related newspaper articles, but then again, 嫦娥 is in HSK 3, and is not an uncommon cultural reference.

This holds for the earlier ones.

When it comes to the later ones (5, basically), the focus is on reading actual literature. I find this good. When you've reached this level, you should get your reading skills up to speed and read actual literature, and at this point, there will be many new words, many of them rare words. The first 5 lessons of the 5th book are actually abridged essays by real writers, as far as I can tell.

The way I see it, you've arrived at the advanced stages by this time, so you are expected to read real books and get vocabulary from there, instead of being fed them by the textbook. So they concentrate on introducing enough literary style and characters to enable you to understand actual books.

[lemur]

lau: Thanks for the useful and informative comments on "Integrated Chinese". I can't compare with other books because that's the only one I've used. Also, I'm using it because I have to use this book, not by choice. And I'm using it in an actual Mandarin class with teacher and all. So my comment should not be taken as a suggestion that this book is better than others. (I don't think you were taking it in this way but I just want to state this explicitly.)

[russmeier]

I also used Integrated Chinese in class. In 美国 it is used extensively (http://eall.hawaii.edu/yao/icusers/ICUsers.html). This is probably because it was written by a team of mainly U.S.-based university authors and was available before the updated PCR. NPCR was not updated until well after the release of the Integrated Chinese series in the U.S.

I liked IC. I also have bought NPCR to look at them. I didn't find them dramatically different. Many of the same topics are introduced in the same places. There are very good reviews of NPCR on these forums by much more authoritative people. So, while for me -- my opinion -- both series seemed like good introductions, I'm happy with my teacher's decision to use IC.

What I have found, though, is that the lack of vocabulary repetition mentioned by a previous thread author can indeed be frustrating as you just "know you saw that word before, but wait, wasn't that way back in chapter 8?" Thus, I made a decision to use a better repetition system: I chose the DeFrancis Beginning Chinese Reader. The reader introduces the characters and then uses them over and over and over throughout the text. Each chapter also uses sentence growing repetition patterns (1st character, 1st + 2nd, 1st + 2nd + 3rd, 1st + 2nd + 3rd + 4th, etc by line) to help drill the characters into memory and emphasize word order in the sentence. But, as I mentioned in a different thread, the DeFrancis reader's are quite old and thus have some older vocabulary and grammar. This hasn't been a problem for me.

By the way, IC is releasing in the third edition this fall. (http://www.cheng-tsui.com/store/products/integrated_chinese_3rd_edition) One thing to note in the "transition guide" is the statement: "The Workbook now includes brief “Let’s Take a Break” review lessons after every

5 lessons for cumulative practice and reinforcement". Maybe this reinforcement will help eliminate some of the "vocabulary so far back in time" effects.

Russ

Milwaukee, WI